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Thread: Se-NT Conflict?

  1. #1
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    Default Se-NT Conflict?

    Recently, a pattern has become increasingly prevalent of extroverted sensors around me feeling compelled to point out what they perceive to be grammatical errors and to obsess over minute details. As an NT, I find this terribly offputting and unproductive most of the time. For example, the other day we had company over (family) and I was explaining to my aunt that if I pursue a law degree in the UK, in order to make it transferrable to Canada it will have to be reviewed by a committee and based on where I got the degree, my marks, and so forth, they will specify X, Y, Z (usually some exams and a number of hours at a Canadian accredited law school). Now, here I said "Z" like "zee" rather than "zed." Then, she proceeded to completely derail the conversation by going on about it being "zed" for Canadians, which is something I know but don't care to change since zee comes much more naturally to me and I find it more pleasing to the ears, the heck with tradition. Nevertheless, here is a classic case of an NT talking about big ideas and a sensor obsessing over an irrelevant detail to the exclusion of the essence of the matter.

    In my experience, these matters are about choices. Let me use myself as a case and point. For those of you that have heard me speak on vent, you know that I can be exceedingly literal (i.e. if you use an "all" where it's only a "some," I'm going to call you on it. I am also going to be very attentive to the assumptions on which your arguments are based). Now, this comes quite naturally and therefore it is a challenge for me to hear an argument out to its fullest completion without interrupting to expose a minute flaw that was perceived with lightning speed. Even if I think it, I won't necessarily publish what I know if I think it's not going to degrade the quality of the discussion. True, it requires strong self-discipline but I believe it is better in the long run. Let someone else be the person who makes their big contribution by exposing a syntax error.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    boobs and beer was the 1st thing that came to mind

    You have to come to germany one day and meet its bureaucracy. You gonna love it !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Senior Member amelie's Avatar
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    I have that problem with INTP's - I really dislike being corrected when the point is just to debate, for example, who was singing a song on the radio or the correct way to pronounce "chipotle." Ugh. I don't CARE that much - the point is to communicate! Plus, it's just flat rude.

    To me, there is a big difference between pointing out that someone's generalization doesn't apply (all vs. some) - that's defining a construct that is being discussed - rather than correcting a pointless detail that has no real meaning in clear communication.

    Further, it would hurt my feelings (NF, sorry about that) that my aunt took more interest in the zed vs. zee debate than my law school applications. That to me would be the biggest issue. I think next time, I would suggest talking to someone who is better at listening. Sorry that happened to you - that sucks.

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    Senior Member Engler's Avatar
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    Not to be pedantic, but wouldn't this be more indicative of introverted sensing, rather than extroverted sensing?

    Introverted sensing deals with the acquisition and review of data, so as to assess a situation according to its relation to previous experiences, or established fact.

    Extroverted sensing, on the other hand, deals with immediately available, external data, that can be directly experienced.

    So, it seems to me as though your aunt's focus on grammatical accuracy can be more accurately associated with introverted sensing, seeing as how she wanted to establish consistency.
    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u56/EnglerMeister/hehh.jpg

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    if anything, INTJs in particular insist on following all the 'rules'...in and around my life anyway

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post

    Let me use myself as a case and point.


    case in point
    a specific example of what one is talking about.
    Now, as a case in point, let's look at nineteenth-century England.
    Fireworks can be dangerous. For a case in point, look at what happened to Bob Smith last Fourth of July.


    Your Aunt made me do it.

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    Member ghoti's Avatar
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    I notice spelling and grammatical errors without actively looking for them, but I won't point them out if they are not essential to the subject being discussed. Unless the wording is vague and leads to conflicting interpretations of a statement, I don't really care. I can still understand the idea being communicated.

  8. #8
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Correcting spelling and grammar seems to be a Ti thing, in my experience.

    NTPs do it all the time, and the Se users that you're referring to are probably mostly ESTPs who are doing it more out of Ti than Se.

    The theory would probably argue that you as a Te user don't see much point in such nitpicking precision if it's not really improving results in any meaningful way, but oh well. Ti is annoying like that.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #9
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    I still like saying "for all intensive purposes" rather than "for all intents and purposes. THATS THE BEST EVER WHEN AN INTJ HEARS AND TRIES TO CORRECT YOU!!! but if you're cool you're NTP! So you actually make a defense for the usage of INTENSIVE PURPOSES as opposed to its natural, LOGICAL contrary: EXTENSIVE PURPOSES!!

    In fact, if I'm ever a professor someday, I'll do this just to piss off intellectual Js. oh, the infamy

  10. #10
    Member nocebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amelie View Post
    I have that problem with INTP's - I really dislike being corrected when the point is just to debate, for example, who was singing a song on the radio or the correct way to pronounce "chipotle." Ugh. I don't CARE that much - the point is to communicate! Plus, it's just flat rude.

    To me, there is a big difference between pointing out that someone's generalization doesn't apply (all vs. some) - that's defining a construct that is being discussed - rather than correcting a pointless detail that has no real meaning in clear communication.

    Just because a correction doesn't apply to the immediate debate, doesn't mean it won't apply later, in the future. Correcting a misunderstanding now could save trouble later. You're also assuming that those participating in a discussion are all getting the same things out of it.

    But. That's not always true.

    For example, a group could be discussing MBTI as a whole, but within that group, there could be a person whose still learning English as a second language. You don't know, right? A grammar mistake could be relevant to HIS purpose.

    So, the thing is... you can't ever account for all the external factors at work.
    What's irrelevant from one perspective, could be relevant from another.

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