[MBTI General] INTP and Sociopath

[Schizm]

My ENTJ friend told me tonight that he thinks I am a sociopath. Any other INTP's in my same boat?

 

[SolitaryWalker]

There is one INFP who thinks that I am a sociopath, supposedly because I dont show any emotion and seem very unsociable. According to my INTJ friend/his wife. I told her that it would make more sense if he meant by 'anti-social', that i'm unsociable, rather than that I'm a sociopath. But no..she insisted that he meant that I'm a sociopath..

Rather odd...I think the real reason has nothign to do with my INTPish behavior and everything to do with how I stood him off when we first met..I thought he was being overly accomodating..and I was in my neurotic Ti phase..he musnt have appreciated my challenging and critical remarks i started off our discussion with..by which i of course meant no harm..thats just part and parcel of my analytical approach to life..but i bet he took it personally..

I'd say STPs are a better fit for the sociopath archetype. The folks who are resolute on appeasing their desires in a very dispassionate fashion, the pestilence of which knows no end because their are desires can be moved on whim..on mere impulse..

ESTP is the best fit of all, I'd say..the most impulsive and the least aware of how their actions impact others because of their inferior N..ISTPs, though with a lower F, tend to be more reflective (I), and more perceptive..yet one can hardly avoid associating the neurotic ESTP caricature with a rogue archetype..

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Yeah i agree. INTPs can be distant and hard to read, but they are typically quite unlike a sociopathic profile. Anyway, it is a little dangerous to associate an entire personality type with a disorder. I agree about the STPs having some appearance that is more like a sociopath than an INTP, but even there it is a fundamental difference between personality trait and disorder. Maybe it would be like saying INTPs are austistic or have Aspergers? Or ESFPs are manic depressive/bipolar? What would INFs be? Something reality optional.

Hey this is almost fun in a weird and useless way.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah i agree. INTPs can be distant and hard to read, but they are typically quite unlike a sociopathic profile.

INTPs are more "schizoid" if anything. They can end up shunning emotion/connection in favor of impersonal analysis of everything. If someone does become too detached from their emotions and other people's emotions, yes, they can start behaving in ways that are very hurtful to others, but the psychopathology of the sociopath is much different than the typical INTP.

Most INTPs get frustrated, hurt, angry, whatnot, by society and its restrictions; and eventually can "shut off" their empathy. But they still had it to begin with.

Sociopaths are very different. They are numb to empathy to start with, it seems. Other people are only objects. Sociopaths are completely self-centered, basically amoral and solipsistic in nature. They just do whatever pleases them in the moment; and if someone else gets in their way, they coldly and methodically will remove them. Impersonal, numb, and cold would be good ways to describe it; people are nothing more than scraps of paper to be crumpled up and discarded if inconvenient, and otherwise they can be ignored. It is like the ability to connect, empathize, and understand (and/or care) about others has been burned out of them.

 

[Tiamat]

I have a friend that called me a sociopath due to my...dark sense of humor.

Me: I can honestly say that I don't enjoy seeing things burn.
Friend: What? How can you say that?
Me: I'd much rather see something drown...

...I'm not very funny btw

 

[return-of-uni]

INTPs are more "schizoid" if anything. They can end up shunning emotion/connection in favor of impersonal analysis of everything. If someone does become too detached from their emotions and other people's emotions, yes, they can start behaving in ways that are very hurtful to others, but the psychopathology of the sociopath is much different than the typical INTP.

Most INTPs get frustrated, hurt, angry, whatnot, by society and its restrictions; and eventually can "shut off" their empathy. But they still had it to begin with.

Sociopaths are very different. They are numb to empathy to start with, it seems. Other people are only objects. Sociopaths are completely self-centered, basically amoral and solipsistic in nature. They just do whatever pleases them in the moment; and if someone else gets in their way, they coldly and methodically will remove them. Impersonal, numb, and cold would be good ways to describe it; people are nothing more than scraps of paper to be crumpled up and discarded if inconvenient, and otherwise they can be ignored. It is like the ability to connect, empathize, and understand (and/or care) about others has been burned out of them.

so is it natural born? could some traumatic event take place in childhood like the death of a parent, child molestation or later such as rape. An accumalation of events might re-enforce and strengthen the I as apposed to we philosophy.I imagine predisposition would play a vital part in how such traumatic events are taken inward then reflected back.

By their very nature i imagine accounts by sociopaths are very rare and liers never give true accounts, so is most information on sociopaths restricted to observations by a second party?

can they be cured?

would counceling of this type be only of use to the councelor?

 

[mippus]

so are sociopaths created or natural born?

By their very nature i imagine accounts by sociopaths are very rare and liers never give true accounts, so is most information on sociopaths restricted to observations by a second party?

can they be cured?

would counceling of this type be only of use to the councelor?

... and do sociopaths realize they are sociopaths?

 

[return-of-uni]

... and do sociopaths realize they are sociopaths?

well as far as im aware sociopaths arent of limited intelligence except emotionally and an observant parent might spot these tendencies and seek support counceling etc for their offspring i think cold personality syndrome is basically the same and was used before the term sociopath was invented or became mainstream.

The impairment to observation of others would be limited due to the lack of empathic feeling and a lier who is completely unempathic would i presume naturally assume all others are doing the same somewhat. But actions by others would be hard to ignore as would the lifestyle differences between a sociopath and non. so i imagine on the whole they do but are there different grades? The closer to norm i imagine the harder it is for even them to spot. so at a guess yes on the whole.

 

[wildcat]

My ENTJ friend told me tonight that he thinks I am a sociopath. Any other INTP's in my same boat?

The sociopath conforms to the norm.
A cancer cell conforms to the norm, too.

 

[cafe]

so is it natural born? could some traumatic event take place in childhood like the death of a parent, child molestation or later such as rape. An accumalation of events might re-enforce and strengthen the I as apposed to we philosophy.I imagine predisposition would play a vital part in how such traumatic events are taken inward then reflected back.

By their very nature i imagine accounts by sociopaths are very rare and liers never give true accounts, so is most information on sociopaths restricted to observations by a second party?

can they be cured?

would counceling of this type be only of use to the councelor?

From what little I've read, it seems sociopaths benefit most from counseling that helps them understand how they benefit by obeying laws and basically behaving themselves.

But I think sociopaths usually only get diagnosed and treated when they can't figure that out for themselves and wind up in the penal system. I do not think they have had good luck with curing them, just convincing them to try to play well with others.

 

[return-of-uni]

From what little I've read, it seems sociopaths benefit most from counseling that helps them understand how they benefit by obeying laws and basically behaving themselves.

But I think sociopaths usually only get diagnosed and treated when they can't figure that out for themselves and wind up in the penal system. I do not think they have had good luck with curing them, just convincing them to try to play well with others.

To my knowledge i have possibly had dealings with two sociopaths, i'm virtually 100 percent on one and do not think they can be persuaded into anything but self interest and preservation which a higher thinking sociopath will have well in hand. I view them as natural born predators but more in the hyena scavenger mould than others such as lion. As an observation i think they also have low pain thresholds and obviously a pack mentality. They will look for vunerability more mentally than physically through self preservation and fear of the penal system. They are habitual liers and if fully comfortable have a sense of granduer about themselves which is almost laughable. To befriend a sociopath you would have to have an easy going nature and show some form of respect they really dont like emotionally volatile people. The core will always show at some point and they can be very dangerous to the mentally unstable as misconception and lies are far more damaging to people suffering from stress, hypomania, mania etc.

They are worth spotting early because they can kill someone via suicide.

As john lennons line goes "im just a jealous guy, WATCHOUT. slightly dramatic but it would be intersting to know how many people have entered the mental health system due to extensive contact with this type.

This is based only on experience and is no guide, just personal observation made of one person.

edit: I am completely biased on this subject

 

[cafe]

Funny you would say that. I was undergoing treatment for bipolar II when a therapist helped me realize how destructive my relationship with my mother (possibly sociopathic, who knows?) was. I eventually cut off my relationship with my mom and around the same time my financial situation improved and amazingly, the bipolar appears to be in remission.

I feel like I was on medication because my mom is crazy.

 

[Seanan]

Man this has hit a seriously sore spot! What is it they say about that with INTPs?

What is this frickin procilivity people have today for using major mental/emotional illness terms offhandedly directed at fellow human beings? Its a new form of namecalling to me and irks the holy sh** out of me. Number one... its a logical fallacy and I totally turn off when I hear it done. One I hear tossed around sooo often is "paranoid" (Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others) how the he## can any casual poster know something like that from a simple post? Classifying an "I" as that is IMO f'd up. Where are their friggin credentials? Its a put down, plain and simple... "irrational" indeed! And simply demonstrates the name-callers inability to think and speak rationally themselves.

As for sociopath or psychopath... those are about the most serious diagnoses one can hear. (as in f'n serial killer) Definitely not to be bandied about lightly! I would venture to say that anyone irl calling me that would either get a slap in the mouth or a verbal beating they wouldn't soon forget.

Suffice to say, IMO, unless they're a doctor or the person has shared that intimate information with them, anyone using mental/emotional illness terms referring to another human being is just showing their own ignorance, illiteracy and inflated sense of self-worth... egocentric in the extreme!.. not to mention rude, crude, insulting, insensitive b*strd behavior that really should carry the consequence of them winding up on the f'n floor. :steam:

Edit: I'll take profanity any day over namecalling.:steam:

 

[Totenkindly]

I can empathize with you, Seanan.

I think the language has become too commonplace and too casually used. With any bona fide psychological condition, we are really talking about a complex that leaves a person unable to function in society.

I have had behavior in my past that was very much similar to Avoidant behavior, that was never treated... and I might use the word as shorthand to describe where I was -- and it was BAD, I was reclusive, couldn't look at people in the hall, was terrified of criticism, the whole works -- but I am not sure it was true Avoidant behavior... because I could still hold down a job.

(I improved greatly after what amounted to cognitive behavioral therapy.)

But I suppose my point is that I think we use the terms too flippantly. And, case in point, if anyone of us met a true sociopath... we would probably straightaway foul our pants.

 

[Seanan]

But I suppose my point is that I think we use the terms too flippantly. And, case in point, if anyone of us met a true sociopath... we would probably straightaway foul our pants.

So right! I did and thank God, the stars above, or whatever, they're behind bars now.

Edit.. I meant met one. LOL

 

[cafe]

Oh yeah, FWIW, I don't think any type, including INTP, is sociopathic. I doubt there is even a correlation between any type and sociopathy.

 

[return-of-uni]

Funny you would say that. I was undergoing treatment for bipolar II when a therapist helped me realize how destructive my relationship with my mother (possibly sociopathic, who knows?) was. I eventually cut off my relationship with my mom and around the same time my financial situation improved and amazingly, the bipolar appears to be in remission.

I feel like I was on medication because my mom is crazy.

It's great news to hear your bipolar disorder is in remission and who more worthy than you to make a judgement as to the possible reasons

Man this has hit a seriously sore spot! What is it they say about that with INTPs?

What is this frickin procilivity people have today for using major mental/emotional illness terms offhandedly directed at fellow human beings? Its a new form of namecalling to me and irks the holy sh** out of me. Number one... its a logical fallacy and I totally turn off when I hear it done. One I hear tossed around sooo often is "paranoid" (Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others) how the he## can any casual poster know something like that from a simple post? Classifying an "I" as that is IMO f'd up. Where are their friggin credentials? Its a put down, plain and simple... "irrational" indeed! And simply demonstrates the name-callers inability to think and speak rationally themselves.

As for sociopath or psychopath... those are about the most serious diagnoses one can hear. (as in f'n serial killer) Definitely not to be bandied about lightly! I would venture to say that anyone irl calling me that would either get a slap in the mouth or a verbal beating they wouldn't soon forget.

Suffice to say, IMO, unless they're a doctor or the person has shared that intimate information with them, anyone using mental/emotional illness terms referring to another human being is just showing their own ignorance, illiteracy and inflated sense of self-worth... egocentric in the extreme!.. not to mention rude, crude, insulting, insensitive b*strd behavior that really should carry the consequence of them winding up on the f'n floor. :steam:

Edit: I'll take profanity any day over namecalling.:steam:

I do not know if you are refering to my post aswell as others. I will be the first to admit i am biased toward people with cold personality disorders from experience and i was going to ammend my post to say such and still will.Possibly refering to them as being predators who behave like hyenas was quite rude aswell my moral concience is still yet to decide. I'm not sure sociopath means in anyway likely to kill and think its possibly a TV misconception but i have only just looked up the profile of a sociopath and know no more facts in relation to murders. sociopathic and cold personality disorder tendencies especially when borderline are not what i would call a major mental illness and in terms of emotions as far as im aware they have lost no love for themselves only fail to have it for others.

that said the ability to love others is a fantastic gift and i certainly do not have to carry their cross so maybe i am lacking some christain/ buddhist/Jewish/ muslim virtues.

Oh yeah, FWIW, I don't think any type, including INTP, is sociopathic. I doubt there is even a correlation between any type and sociopathy.

I do not think there is any correlation either.

Although i gave a very dramatic warning I can see the inner reserved nature of INTP's and others of the mould attracting cold personalities. The conception that we are Aloof and naturally reserved with our feelings is somewhat of a magnet. I wonder how many INTP's needing mental, spiritual guidance would turn to their closest friend and no more in a crisis. I feel inclined to give a warning but advocate no calling out, gossiping or open prejudice ( If they havent hurt you dont hurt them). minorities who prefer a small group of friends should at least be aware should they not? If you have doubts look after yourself in times of trouble and your friends, if you see them hurt others do something about it.

anyway i'm not sure you were talking to me but if i helped in giving you a sore spot my apologies.

reading the profile description has only stregthened my resolve that i am slightly more aware than your common doctor.

 

[rainfall]

Hey this is almost fun in a weird and useless way.

There is other way to have fun?

 

[matmos]

I cannot find any reference on the net that suggests MBTI is a good indicator of psychopathy. The only recognised method of diagnosis in many countries is the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R). See The Hare Psychopathy Scales

The subject is highly complex but the characteristics of primary psychopathy are listed here: Psychopathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia although you can probably find them on Hare's website.

That said, I can see where you're coming from... A peculiar lack empathy you may conclude you have something in common with our chum the pychopath. This is not the same as being one - to qualify see paragraph one! A=B does not mean B=A.

The suggestion muted is that INTs may have a predisposition to schizoid and schizotypal personality disorders - although there is some debate as to whether the latter is actually a disorder at all. I should quote the source of that last statement but I can't remember off-hand.

Unless you've *done something* really bad because of an absence of empathy I wouldn't worry about it. Consider yourself gifted with the ability to see problems without personalities getting in the way.

EDIT. I'm always getting called a psycho. This does not pose a problem per-se at the moment as there is still plenty of room under the patio for my accusers

 

[Heatmiser]

:hi:
Interestingly enough, I found this forum while searching for links relating MBTI types and sociopathy for a book I'm writing. The MBTI Manual does report research showing that ISTPs and INTPs are more likely to have a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy), more likely to have problems with the law and domestic trouble. Before anyone takes offense, this does not mean that if your type is one of these, that you ARE or WILL BE a sociopath! It just means that these types have greater representation in those diagnosed ASPD. No cause and effect is implied. These types do NOT predict sociopathy (and the PCL mentioned above, is a good instrument to do this). To respond to some of the above comments, I believe that there is both a pre-disposition AND some serious and abusive environmental factors that have to combine in order for someone to be diagnosed as ASPD. Most people who end up being sociopaths (1 in 25 people) have experienced significant abuse and/or neglect as a child, and thus, they don't develop the empathy and conscience that the rest of us do. Check out the book- The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout, for a very well done and readable examination of sociopathy. Then move on to anything written by Hare. This relationship is just another example of the MBTI types being correlated with anything and everything.
Great discussion and forum!