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  1. #71
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    I think Fear as in Flight or fight response is pretty rational. I think Love as in mother/child bond is logical too.
    I think emotions in our cave dwelling days were perhaps simpilar, and more based in rational response, than they are today, now survival of the fittest doesn't apply.
    These are more instincts rather than emotions-..
    Instincts mostly make sense in situations. Not really "rational" in the sense that there is reason and decision involved..

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Ahh but that 'logic' you use to get that groupsupport, is in fact backed up by emotions, as they will feel an overwhelming need to actually help you. You won't find this in solitary animals, even those that are forced to live in a group (for instance cats, while dogs will help and protect one another).
    Yes. Emotions and logic usually come to the same conclusion.

    The same is true for your second example. It's idd the fact that they can empathize with you that gets you a second chance.
    Empathy speed things up, but is not a requirement. A cost/benefit analysis could lead to the same action.

    However, the feelings for a hansome stud would never outweigh the feelings for self preservation in your third example.
    Attractive people do get off easier. Notice how the scruffiest crook suddenly sports a suit and tie when they end up in court. They did not suddenly develop a fashion sense in prison.

    In conflict situations though, where both are saying the opposite, listen to the one you're most adept at and look at which one is in fact important for the situation you're in.
    I think that's a very good common ground for thinkers and feelers. While I believe logic result in better outcomes, "better" is in the eyes of the beholder.

  3. #73
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    They're not. Nor is acting on them.

    Discuss.

    Will expand if this receives no replies.

    Ok, emotions are racional. Logic is rational.


    Then what is irrational ?

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Then what is irrational ?
    Acting solely out of emotion without regard to its root cause.

    In fact, I think some of the confusion in this thread might be from mistaking "emotion" with "emotional actions."

  5. #75
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Seeing that rationality involves some thought and decision- there is not much of a question about whether emotions are rational or not. They aren't. They are reactions whether it be "good" ones or "bad" ones. I think maybe a better title of this thread might be- "When is it better to make decisions by following emotions over rational thought?" or something like that. Since we all seem to agree that emotions can be used together with rationality- but why might it be better to use solely rationality over solely emotions?

    And- as my personal shortsie's opinion side note:
    I think that its really hard to argue emotions against rationality as more effective ways of making decisions. Because in making thoughtful and rational decisions- you can take emotions into account, and therefore make a more well-rounded choice using your logic and emotions, but- by making decisions without using rational thought- and only emotions- then you don't always take reasoning into account. And although you may be able to a make an excellent decision using emotions only, there is a lot more risk involved.

  6. #76
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    If emotions were rational, they'd be called thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Oddly enough, I've seen more examples of NTs being chastised for this than of NTs saying emotions are a useless weakness . . . unless you consider a statement of "that doesn't make any sense to me" to be "emotions are a useless weakness."
    +1

  7. #77
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Ok, emotions are racional. Logic is rational.


    Then what is irrational ?
    Incorrect mapping of ideas to reality can occur in both misapplied emotions and misapplied logic. The irrational results from faulty underlying assumptions. At that point whatever process is working with the assumptions, the result will likely be false. Some might argue that it is the process that defines rationalism, but it is at least worth making the distinction.

    There is the argument that considering the world flat was at one point the rational conclusion based on available data. A completely rational process would allow for the inclusion of newer, more accurate data. In this way it is the process and not the assumptions that defines rationality. If for some reason the system is closed and does not allow for new data, then the set of assumptions defines the system and even if the process is logical in its internal connections, the system can be irrational by nature.

    My position on the relationship between reason and emotion is that sometimes emotion can be relevant data. If the rational system is open and can include the emotional data where it is applicable, then it is rational. If it is a closed system that excludes emotional data regardless, then it may be an irrational system even with logical internal connections.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #78
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    They're not. Nor is acting on them.

    Discuss.

    Will expand if this receives no replies.
    Stop saying the sky is blue. Its obviously a shade of teal.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  9. #79
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    The emotional realm rarely can be translated into the rationale.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
    Ti
    = Ne > Ni > Fi > Te > Se > Fe > Si INTP (I/PNT) 5w4

  10. #80
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    The emotional realm rarely can be translated into the rationale.
    Emotions are premises, being rational takes you to an efficient conclusion based on those premises.

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