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  1. #31
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cady View Post
    :chicken:
    Groups of people are like schools of fish. It's like standing in a line and there's an open cash register that no one is going to and once one person breaks out and goes to that empty line everyone starts to break out as well. Depending on what the group is gathered for all you have to do is break out. Since it's just a bunch of college kids talking about getting drunk, being drunk, and staying drunk your bar is set very low and it should be pinch to hop right over. Just the fact that the only topic of conversation is drunkenness indicates to me this isn't a very tight group of people talking about being drunk not even engaging in the act of being drunk.

    You can tell how tight and comfortable a group of people are with each other simply by the subject matter of the conversation. If pedestrian observations are passing as stimulating conversation then the people don't really feel comfortable with each other so it's not really you, it's them. Is it a group of friends that has a stable core? Do you all kind of know each other, but don't really know each other that well? Will they ever feel comfortable enough to engage in conversations you find stimulating? Well, who knows, somebody has to try and see what happens. Just sitting and sulking the the conversation isn't exciting enough doesn't make it more interesting it just makes you salty.

    I've been in a situations myself where people are talking about how drunk they are, somebody's drinking a Guinness, somebody wants an Irish car bomb, we start talking about Ireland, then next thing we're talking about the current state of affairs in Ireland, why you don't hear much about it in the news, then from there we're talking about how to define a terrorist, terrorism, the conversation just shoots off from there.

    I guess in my mind, there's always a way to take a current conversation and segue it into something at least I find interesting and it's a totally smooth transition. Those who aren't interested in the conversation will drift out and those who are interested will drift in.

    If you're in a large enough group (8+), there are at least two other people guaranteed to be as bored as you are. If you look you will see the feigned half-hearted interest. Strike up a conversation with those people. If yall look like you're having a good enough time other people will join in.

    I think of groups of people in chunks. It's like they zoom in and out to me. I see little dashes going from one person to another. These group activities are platforms for you to find people you're more interested in. You're there for the group inasmuch as the group gives you a bank of people you may want to get to know better.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #32
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cady View Post
    The problem is give it a week, maybe two and I'll think I can solve this problem. I'll think that maybe if I drink enough, dumb myself down enough, become more of what society expects girls my age to be, I could win this game. When really, it's not a game I'm even interested in, I just keep having it force fed down my throat as the only way to social success.
    You probably CAN dumb yourself down to that and drink like the people around you, if you put your mind to emulating those around you. It's not difficult to do. In fact, I'd wager to say that's what quite a few of the people around you are probably doing. If your primary goal is to win the most friends and social connections possible, then that's probably what you should do. Give the masses what they want. I won't lie about that.

    However, as an NF (and I know you're probably not interested in this), I'd be more concerned about losing the respect of people I'd probably be more interested in being friends with, by associating with that crowd and emulating their behavior. Furthermore, it seems like you really don't like or want to be what they expect you to be. If you play into that stereotype, you'll reinforce it and make it that much harder for the people who come after you and have the same problem to do anything besides follow that path. If you push to do things a little differently, though... then perhaps you won't be popular or well-liked, but you'll chip away at the stereotype and possibly give a few people like yourself a chance to associate with someone more like themselves instead of conforming to something they find painful. And the friends you do make will likely be better friends than the ones you would have made by conforming.

    In other words, the choice is essentially quantity vs. quality. Both choices are valid, and the matter depends solely upon what you desire from your relationships with other people.

  3. #33
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I hate to break it to y'all, but it's not INTP thing.
    Jenocyde is right though. Have drinks with a bunch of N's....if it's good company, it's not just about getting drunk, it'll happen by accident, and I guarantee you will have fun. Lots of good intellectual disscussion.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #34
    Member Cady's Avatar
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    The logic is strong with this board!
    Here I am preparing for a cozy little hermitage and you soothe me with such reasonable arguments.

    Stop limiting yourself to what's directly in front of your face. There is a whole world out there to explore.
    But...must...win...social...game...

    How the hell did this mentality get so ingrained? You're spot on about this, I need new friends. No more putting it off and frustrating myself trying to ingratiate myself with people for the sake of winning some perceived competition.

    Time to hunt some Intuitive type!
    I'll lay traps with logical fallacies and social injustices .

    However, as an NF (and I know you're probably not interested in this), I'd be more concerned about losing the respect of people I'd probably be more interested in being friends with, by associating with that crowd and emulating their behavior.
    Why would I not be interested in this? NF's are such social geniuses I feel thoroughly autistic in comparison.
    Sleep late for a better tomorrow.

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  5. #35
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cady View Post
    I do drink, but to the point of not being able to form sentences and passing out in your own vomit? Excessive drinking seems to have a strangle hold on it's position as the dominant social activity...
    You're hanging out with the wrong people.

    Getting intoxicated with my other NT friends results in deep discussions of the theory of...whatever. Often we play strategy games or do other competitive things, but we play badly because we're drinking and that makes it hilarious. (NTs are ridiculous.) And drinking with NFs can result in serious philosophical inquiry.

    SPs are the ones who seem most likely to drink until they vomit. (SJs who drink in excess are usually not pretty--they either flip out and finally release all that tension through exaggerated emotional outbursts, or imitate the SP drink-till-ya-drop attitude because that seems to be the accepted social standard.)

    Quit going to parties populated primarily by SP drinking enthusiasts who view consuming the most intoxicants possible as an end unto itself, and you should be fine.

    (Read: Don't go to college.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #36
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cady View Post
    How the hell did this mentality get so ingrained? You're spot on about this, I need new friends. No more putting it off and frustrating myself trying to ingratiate myself with people for the sake of winning some perceived competition.

    Time to hunt some Intuitive type!
    I'll lay traps with logical fallacies and social injustices .
    Yay! I'm so glad you're thinking that way.


    Why would I not be interested in this? NF's are such social geniuses I feel thoroughly autistic in comparison.
    Well... because you posted it in the NT Rationale, so I kind of thought the point was to get NT responses. The thing is, by the time I realize what subforum a thread is in, I've already read it and formed an opinion.

    Also, I guess I sort of thought an NT might not be concerned with quality or enjoyment of friendships, or creating a new path for others as an NF would be. I was just trying to avoid sounding oblivious to the fact that NTs don't care about the same things NFs do. Thankfully, it looks like I tend to overshoot the mark when trying to picture the NT detachment.

  7. #37
    Member Cady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    (Read: Don't go to college.)
    But I need to go to college to gain enough credibility to change pieces of the world I can't stand, and enough confidence to tell the pieces I don't want anything to do with to fuck off.
    Sleep late for a better tomorrow.

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  8. #38
    Member Cady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Also, I guess I sort of thought an NT might not be concerned with quality of friendships or creating a new path for others as an NF would be. was just trying to avoid sounding oblivious to the fact that NTs don't care about the same things NFs do. Thankfully, it looks like I tend to overshoot the mark when trying to picture the NT detachment.
    I think NT's appreciate NF's more than this forum lets on. T's can be downright detached from their feelings but that doesn't mean we don't seek to understand them. What you said was really insightful. I've been gunning for quantity because it's what I interpreted as important for so long. I've been completely ignoring that it makes me miserable.

    Is this a feel-o-tard moment?
    Sleep late for a better tomorrow.

    Extraverted - 58%
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  9. #39
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cady View Post
    I think NT's appreciate NF's more than this forum lets on. T's can be downright detached from their feelings but that doesn't mean we don't seek to understand them. What you said was really insightful. I've been gunning for quantity because it's what I interpreted as important for so long. I've been completely ignoring that it makes me miserable.

    Is this a feel-o-tard moment?
    Yeah, I guess it is. Looks like we can do it with all the functions now, rather than just Sensing and Intuition. And thanks, I like finding insights into people.

    Just do your best not to make yourself miserable.

  10. #40
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    I get what you mean. I went to a party with no drink at it on friday and it was the best night i've had in a long time.
    Then on sat i went to my mates were a whole bunch of us were drinking and playing rock band and i left after an hour from boredom and i just couldn't be bothered with it.

    Alcohols only good for getting you hyper but if you can get hyper another way its just as good if not better.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

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