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  1. #11
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    LOL! The exact opposite way I would implement change. Strike that. My last resort for implementing change would be the above.
    ^^

    You'll have to help me hone my gang-star skillz if I can't get my point across.
    Sometimes rhetoric won't work. By taking positive action I've won over most of the team and made myself look like the good guy. Strategically it's also a good move as I've aligned myself with management and have made myself stand out from the rest, which looks good should promotion opportunites arise. There can be no objections from staff not implementing change and if they don't accept my help they're one step closer to getting themselves fired.

    I would agree with you though: this is normally NEVER my style either. As an INTJ I normally like to do my own thing. But in the absence of any other option, someone needed to show leadership.

  2. #12
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed111 View Post
    I described spending money on photocopying as disgraceful. At the end of the meeting I was collared by another lecturer who seemed very upset by it all and came up with a number of excuses as to why he had to photocopy stuff.

    To be honest I'd been getting angry all through the meeting at other items on the agenda (which I had to give my opinion on as well). The photocopying was just the icing on the cake.
    Blowing up at people and shaming them is neither a respectable nor an effective management practice, not to mention that the inevitable repercussions will do your blood pressure no good, as you've discovered. INTJs may still rise to the top in spite of such shortcomings (and I'm sure some would argue that taking incompetence and/or indifference as a personal affront goes with the territory of internalizing the goals of the company as a necessary means to reaching the top), but IMO we do well to cultivate some empathy and practice some diplomacy, thus making people more receptive to our leadership. That's called a win-win situation, which last I heard is something INTJs are supposed to embrace unreservedly.

    Although I grant you that understanding how to deal with people is easier than actually consistently dealing with them in that way. For instance, if I had practiced what I just preached in this post, you would probably have taken to it much better than you are now, so why didn't I?

  3. #13
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    Blowing up at people and shaming them is neither a respectable nor an effective management practice, not to mention that the inevitable repercussions will do your blood pressure no good, as you've discovered. INTJs may still rise to the top in spite of such shortcomings (and I'm sure some would argue that taking incompetence and/or indifference as a personal affront goes with the territory of internalizing the goals of the company as a necessary means to reaching the top), but IMO we do well to cultivate some empathy and practice some diplomacy, thus making people more receptive to our leadership. That's called a win-win situation, which last I heard is something INTJs are supposed to embrace unreservedly.

    Although I grant you that understanding how to deal with people is easier than actually consistently dealing with them in that way. For instance, if I had practiced what I just preached in this post, you would probably have taken to it much better than you are now, so why didn't I?
    You are right of course. It's something I need to work on. I need to learn to use language more carefully. I need to pause and think about what I'm going to say before I say it and not let my emotions control my behaviour.

  4. #14
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    so why didn't I?
    Because I wanted to test my theory that reverse psychology is the most effective way of leading INTJs!


  5. #15
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    I know you're looking for NT input, but I hope you won't mind my two cents. I often have the same trouble myself in meetings, because I'm very good at identifying a litany of problems and cobbling together long-term solutions. (Change is usually met with a lot of resistance, but I wouldn't suggest if it I didn't think it was advantageous, effective, and positive.)

    INxJs in general seem to use their Ni-power (whether it's Fe or Te directed) to troubleshoot and problem solve and this can be viewed as a very hostile act by those that are A) insecure or B) content with the status quo (i.e. lazy). As types, we are both highly motivated to effect change for the sake of improvement. Sometimes our ability to incisively 'cut to the chase' and 'see the big picture' rubs people the wrong way.

    FWIW we both mean well. However, I think INFJs have a natural advantage in presenting said information in a more diplomatic ("let's grease these people wheels") sorta way. INTJs can get good at this by adding the appropriate half-smile at speaking intervals, politely nodding at others' input, and prefacing many ideas with "Maybe we could..." and suffixing with "...in order to make things better for everyone."
    Very insightful observation of Ni with Te/Fe, and great advice.

    ed111, you'll also probably get better with age, and you probably find you are more effective with people you've built relationship with.

  6. #16
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erudur View Post
    Very insightful observation of Ni with Te/Fe, and great advice.

    ed111, you'll also probably get better with age, and you probably find you are more effective with people you've built relationship with.
    Yes it's excellent advice and something I'll try. The problem is I'm probably already old enough to know better.

  7. #17
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    Exactly my attitude - I can be half an hour late to class, but when I'm there, I cooperate fully. You learn more, time goes faster...

    I can't STFU either - I'm probably mentally assaulted by INTPs a lot. Their passivity in turn frustrates me sometimes. Last time I checked it's not lethal to be involved/show some enthusiasm/cooperation rather than indulge in contrary snobbery. It's a vicious circle in which I can end up dominating the conversation with fellow NJs or ETs.

    INTPs: are you sometimes reluctant to speak up because you need more processing time? I remember one INTP asking to be given Qs beforehand so he could prepare them and the discussion would be more focussed/structured/relevant.
    I speak up all the time during class unless if I'm mind-numbingly bored/angry at being so bored.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

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