[INTJ] Why do people seem to dislike INTJs?

[jenocyde]

Because that's usually the reality with INTJs who are debating a subject they have researched.

Possibly. But to assume another opinion is not well researched, coupled with the unwillingness to concede any point whatsoever... It comes off as arrogant.

 

[runvardh]

Damn, I feel late to the game. I have yet to, knowingly, meet an INTJ, IRL, that I don't like. Then again, that sample is only two: one 32 year old male and one 55 year old female.

My only complaints are as follows:

- the male would once in a while would try to talk to me about a subject in theology that I didn't have the base knowledge required to start understanding what he was saying.

- the female was a co-worker who sat beside me for a few months and would complain about this other co-worker more often than I needed to hear about his uselessness, or when the two of them were arguing back and forth about documentation.

 

[Blackmail!]

Because that's usually the reality with INTJs who are debating a subject they have researched.

No, they are usually assuming they know everything better just because they are INTJs.
And that's false, especially when they are unaware of their severe neurotic behavior. They don't know themselves very well, and especially their own limits.

When you challenge an immature INTJ, chances are he won't even understand why and when his reasonings are faulty, no matter how absurd or ridiculous they are. Trying to explain them is simply a waste of time.

You know, the INTJ-forum is the only place where I have found kids who tried to teach me botany and landscape theory. But the most astounding fact is that they were dead serious about it. An INTP would have used bad faith instead, and would have shown it clearly. But INTJs are not aware of these subtleties.

So it was hilarious. Or depressing.

 

[Tallulah]

I really like INTJs. Some of them can be unnecessarily stubborn, and some unnecessarily emotional (which they are blind to), but overall, they're really cool. Usually very smart, generous, and loyal.

 

[matmos]

If you want to understand how to instinctively dislike 80% of the so-called INTJs, just go to their forum. Visit them, it will teach you a lot.

Most of them are neurotic, misanthropic, narcissistic, pretentious, and severely lack humour.

And unlike the ENTPs, where arrogance is only a facade, a game, a kind of comedy, most INTJs usually are exceedingly serious when they think they know everything better than any other people.

A lot of them are irrational, irresponsible braggarts who are not even aware how ridiculous some of their claims actually are.

---

Now the curious fact is that most of my close IRL friends are INTJs.

And even here. But the INTJ subspecie you meet on Typology-central seems to be a very different breed, far more concise, polite and agreeable (1)...

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(1) I hope they won't take this word as an insult... :rolli:

Funny how I agree with blackmail on most things - even the description of the lesser-spotted INTJ. FWIW I think alot of these kids are going through a "deliciously evil" phase: I get an over-riding sense of impulsive youth and over-confidence coupled with a little knowledge (one-eyed man in the Kingdom of the Blind Syndrome).

Put them all in a big pot, give a stir and you get something like INTJforum.

Worst of all - as with all NTs - are the ones that treat knowledge as some kind of competition. They've really missed the point and limit themselves severely by such rigidity. Pity.

Oddly enough a disproportionately large number of my friends are ENTPs. I find the educated ones great company, priceless, but run a mile from the vacuous loudmouth kind.

 

[Edgar]

No, they are usually assuming they know everything better just because they are INTJs.
And that's false, especially when they are unaware of their severe neurotic behavior. They don't know themselves very well, and especially their own limits.

When you challenge an immature INTJ, chances are he won't even understand why and when his reasonings are faulty, no matter how absurd or ridiculous they are. Trying to explain them is simply a waste of time.

Could have sworn you were talking about ENTPs there.

If anything, INTJs prefer to stay on topics they know/care about, and are dismissive of the topics that do not interest them.

 

[jenocyde]

BT and BM: age is certainly a factor with NTs... well said. I've had a young INTJ try to correct the way I pronounce my own name *sigh*.
But on the whole, I have so many wonderful INTJ friends and I adore them. Great people. The majority of my closest friends are INTx. Love 'em.


Except for Edgar. He's officially my arch nemesis and he sucks the souls from puppies. It's a love/hate thing: he loves me and I hate him...

 

[Economica]

No, they are usually assuming they know everything better just because they are INTJs.
And that's false, especially when they are unaware of their severe neurotic behavior. They don't know themselves very well, and especially their own limits.

When you challenge an immature INTJ, chances are he won't even understand why and when his reasonings are faulty, no matter how absurd or ridiculous they are. Trying to explain them is simply a waste of time.

This INTJ, for one, agrees. It's the reason for my signature.

Oh, and thread readers, if you haven't already, do vote in my poll: INXJ closed-minded certitude

 

[juggernaut]

Oh my goodness... I never said you couldn't criticize me or an ENTP, I just asked if I had said something offensive because you said something about a pot calling a kettle black.

I know we can be seen as assholes. There have been countless threads about it. I've also apologized countless times for being an asshole. But this thread asked a question about INTJs specifically. I made a comment in reference to genes and had my intelligence insulted. I don't do that to people.

Most ENTPs would at least want to hear your arguments while most INTJs are content with saying that you could have no possible way of understanding the argument. And this is why people seem to dislike INTJs. But of course there are reasons for people to not like ENTPs or INFJs or ABCDs...

And no offense but coming from an ENTJ this is comical. We're all a bunch of pricks, just in different ways.

My goal was not to point out how ENTPs are assholes, as I don't actually believe that. The reason I posted earlier about ENTPs being accused of the same is that NTs, in general, tend to be viewed as psychological bullies. Telling an INTJ she's disliked because INTJs are bullies basically misses the mark because the INTJ is no more a bully than any other NT (save the INTPs...which I already mentioned). The fact that you think this assessment is "comical" coming from what you believe to be an ENTJ only further substantiates what I've said. INTJs are not disliked because they are bullies. There are lots of not-so-neat little traits that are unique to the INTJ personality type that people don't respond well to, but the "bullying" is a feature common to most NTs. So, to make a longish reply even longer, the answer you provided was one that would be provided for all of us (the NTs), but it is not something distinguishes the INTJ in particular .

 

[Virtual ghost]

People dislike us?

 

[FigerPuppet]

No, they are usually assuming they know everything better just because they are INTJs.

I haven't met an INTJ who thinks he knows a subject better than other people just because he is an INTJ.

And that's false, especially when they are unaware of their severe neurotic behavior. They don't know themselves very well, and especially their own limits.

Could you give examples of neurotic behaviour and what is has to do with an INTJ thinking he knows a subject better than others? Couldn't it just be self-confidence?
And I disagree with you regarding the "not knowing their own limits"-thing. INTJs know their limits, which is why they steer clear of any subjects they don't know sufficiently well.

When you challenge an immature INTJ, chances are he won't even understand why and when his reasonings are faulty, no matter how absurd or ridiculous they are. Trying to explain them is simply a waste of time.

And you're calling INTJs arrogant?

You know, the INTJ-forum is the only place where I have found kids who tried to teach me botany and landscape theory. But the most astounding fact is that they were dead serious about it. An INTP would have used bad faith instead, and would have shown it clearly. But INTJs are not aware of these subtleties.

You're critizing INTJs for trying to educate you, or have I misunderstood something?

 

[Virtual ghost]

You're critizing INTJs for trying to educate you, or have I misunderstood something?

If I have right information he has a PhD is this area what you can't say for them.
I can perfectly underderstand why would someone find this to be annoying.

 

[juggernaut]

If I have right information he has a PhD is this area what you can say for them. I can perfectly underderstand why would someone find this to be annoying.

What does this mean?

(I am sympathetic to Blackmail!'s irritation though.)

 

[jenocyde]

My goal was not to point out how ENTPs are assholes, as I don't actually believe that. The reason I posted earlier about ENTPs being accused of the same is that NTs, in general, tend to be viewed as psychological bullies. Telling an INTJ she's disliked because INTJs are bullies basically misses the mark because the INTJ is no more a bully than any other NT (save the INTPs...which I already mentioned). The fact that you think this assessment is "comical" coming from what you believe to be an ENTJ only further substantiates what I've said. INTJs are not disliked because they are bullies. There are lots of not-so-neat little traits that are unique to the INTJ personality type that people don't respond well to, but the "bullying" is a feature common to most NTs. So, to make a longish reply even longer, the answer you provided was one that would be provided for all of us (the NTs), but it is not something distinguishes the INTJ in particular .

Juggernaut - we all have different styles of communication that irritate people. The one I pointed out is the one I feel that INTJs dole out (which was substantiated by a few INTJs in this very thread). To me, it comes off as bullying - I don't feel this way when INTPs behave in their own irrational way. I feel this way about INTJs. If you want to start a thread about the ways in which my type bullies, feel free - but it's been done... a lot.

And since this is about personal opinion, I'm entitled to feel it and express it. I don't personally believe that this style of debate is common to other types. I have yet to see it. But if you feel that all NTs debate and irritate, and even bully, in the same manner, this is a topic I am willing to explore. In my experience, ENTPs have a different way of being difficult, as do ENTJs and INTPs.

To clarify, I did not tell her that she was disliked because she was a bully. I said that I don't feel at all like she's a bully, but I can see how others who are more sensitive can feel bullied when their intelligence, rather than their argument, is attacked.

And I don't know how me saying this is comical substantiates anything. Are you saying it substantiates that I am a bully, or that you are a bully or that - I don't even know...? And bullying can be applied to any type, I hear ESTJs called that all the time...

I'm not going around any more with this. I really have no desire to argue with you over something like this. We are both entitled to our respective opinions.

 

[FigerPuppet]

If I have right information he has a PhD is this area what you can't say for them.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[ThatGirl]

My experience with INTJs is that they are incredibly confident and open minded. Basically, not looking for external validation gives them the freedom to explore concepts and ideas without it ever being a threat to their self esteem.

My best, only, friend is an INTJ female. I love our conversations because she is willing to go down any road and explore any thought with an open mind. She is not cold at all, in fact although she appears commanding on the outside, is one of the most caring and sensitive people I have known on the inside. The only time I have seen her go into her..."Unacceptable!" mode as I like to call it, is when she is working in direct relation to someone who is incompetent.

Anyway, so I am saying that I admire the INTJs. They are one of the most complimentary types to my type I have found, and they make the very best consiglieres. I have never seen coldness from one simply fairness. LOL, they are actually quiet comforting now that I think about it.

 

[jenocyde]

Anyway, so I am saying that i admire the INTJs. They are one of the most complimentary types to my type I have found, and they make the very best consiglieres. I have never seen coldness from one simply fairness. LOL, they are actually quiet comforting now that I think about it.

Agreed.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

That is exactly why I said it.

 

[Jaguar]

Further more INTJs tend to be [...] low on agreeableness, leading to dislike.

I'm going to have to call bullshit on that one.
I'm not INTJ but have a low agreeableness score.
That doesn't mean you are automatically disliked.
It means you question things,
and are less likely to be influenced by peer pressure.
Nothing wrong with that.

Keep it fair here, people.

 

[simulatedworld]

That's not true. INTPs are the most logical, and they piss me off with their incessant need to break down and explain everything.

Also, quit being such a crybaby, invaderzim.

I'd say the way to convince an INTJ that he's wrong is to show objectively that his current interpretation isn't producing long-term results effectively.

Breaking it down to the most obscure logical ends of hypotheticals is not very attractive because it's just a waste of time. Apply this principle to something useful (even if it takes a long time to show return, that's fine) or abandon it and find a more effective one.