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Thread: Chameleoning

  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I think people like you better when you are a chameleon though.
    Yes, and then you prostitute your inner identity to some hollow external end..as an ENTP you may fly by fine as you dont need much of a sound inner identity..but INTPs should take good care to improvise only to the extent that their inner principles allow them.

    Perhaps the reason why you're adapting less now is because your Ti is now stronger and you have a stronger inner identity now as well as you depend less on approval of others?
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  2. #22
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    I keep thinking of the poor Norma.
    Anyway, she was the true INTP chameleonne.

    She said: I think I am a phony.
    The Marilyn thingie was an expensive price to pay to fit in.
    And in the end she did not fit in.

    She was the loner at parties. Used to sit at the staircase all alone by herself.
    This was because of the other women. They thought she would steal their men.
    Stupid bitches.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    While growing up I was a master chameleon. Over the past few years I've been doing it less and less. I think people like you better when you are a chameleon though.

    "We are so alike". "______, we have so much in common."

  4. #24
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Yes, and then you prostitute your inner identity to some hollow external end..as an ENTP you may fly by fine as you dont need much of a sound inner identity..but INTPs should take good care to improvise only to the extent that their inner principles allow them.

    Perhaps the reason why you're adapting less now is because your Ti is now stronger and you have a stronger inner identity now as well as you depend less on approval of others?
    Actually my Ti has always been very strong. (My Dad is an INTP and I think that is why.) But Ti never gave me a solid foundation. It's always been just a way to analyse ideas. It's efficient yes, but does not give me any sense of identity.

    A few years ago I significantly developed my Fi though. Now Fi is something that can really give a person a strong core. I get my identity much more from Fi than from Ti.
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  5. #25
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Actually my Ti has always been very strong. (My Dad is an INTP and I think that is why.) But Ti never gave me a solid foundation. It's always been just a way to analyse ideas. It's efficient yes, but does not give me any sense of identity.

    A few years ago I significantly developed my Fi though. Now Fi is something that can really give a person a strong core. I get my identity much more from Fi than from Ti.
    I'd speculate that the reason why you did not get a strong identity from Ti because you have not learned to use it in a way to build identity. Most INTPs manage to accomplish this. This has been featured most dramatically in history in character of Socrates, Aristotle, Spinoza and recently Einstein.

    That is because Ti is a function of introverted judgment, it seeks a higher purpose in nearly everything it encounters. Or as Leanor Thompson put it, an internal purpose, one that transcends the convention.

    To say that Ti can be used only for analyzing is tantamount to saying that Fi is used only for empathizing. No doubt this is how F is used externally, hence the reason why EFJs tend to lack a sound inner identity, but Fi goes beyond that. To ignore this means to ignore the introverted judgment aspect of Fi and Ti.

    I think that the reason why you were unable to derive a sense of inner identity from Ti is because you have externalized it. As you said, you used it only for analyzing.

    I also speculate that it is not really Fi that is giving you a sense of higher purpose. It is Fe that you've developed and its working through your Ti. Ti first sent you inwards searching for the purpose and Fe backed it up with emotional energy and hence made it look like Fi.

    I am not saying you dont have Fi at all, but it works from behind Fe, and therefore necessarily less influential.

    Here is the order that functions tend to grow in.

    Ne(0-10)
    Ti(10-20) reinforce Ne
    Ni
    Te(the further down the list we go, the greater the gaps will be)
    Fe(20-30) reinforce Ti
    Fi
    Si (30-40) reinforce Fe
    Se

    40-50, Reinforce Si, the second function of the same kind grows simultaneously as the prominent, though at a significantly slower rate.
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  6. #26
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I'd speculate that the reason why you did not get a strong identity from Ti because you have not learned to use it in a way to build identity. Most INTPs manage to accomplish this. This has been featured most dramatically in history in character of Socrates, Aristotle, Spinoza and recently Einstein.

    That is because Ti is a function of introverted judgment, it seeks a higher purpose in nearly everything it encounters. Or as Leanor Thompson put it, an internal purpose, one that transcends the convention.

    To say that Ti can be used only for analyzing is tantamount to saying that Fi is used only for empathizing. No doubt this is how F is used externally, hence the reason why EFJs tend to lack a sound inner identity, but Fi goes beyond that. To ignore this means to ignore the introverted judgment aspect of Fi and Ti.

    I think that the reason why you were unable to derive a sense of inner identity from Ti is because you have externalized it. As you said, you used it only for analyzing.

    I also speculate that it is not really Fi that is giving you a sense of higher purpose. It is Fe that you've developed and its working through your Ti. Ti first sent you inwards searching for the purpose and Fe backed it up with emotional energy and hence made it look like Fi.

    I am not saying you dont have Fi at all, but it works from behind Fe, and therefore necessarily less influential.

    Here is the order that functions tend to grow in.

    Ne(0-10)
    Ti(10-20) reinforce Ne
    Ni
    Te(the further down the list we go, the greater the gaps will be)
    Fe(20-30) reinforce Ti
    Fi
    Si (30-40) reinforce Fe
    Se

    40-50, Reinforce Si, the second function of the same kind grows simultaneously as the prominent, though at a significantly slower rate.
    Well I'm not sure how much stock you put in the 8 cognitive functions test, but my fuctions turned up in an order more like this.

    Ne ... excellent
    Ti ... excellent
    Fi ... good
    Ni ... good
    Te ... average
    Se ... average
    Fe ... poor
    Si ... poor

    My Fi is really developed, but my Fe is not really developed at all. Sharing, bonding through experience, social ettiquette, etc... never really did much for me and still doesn't. On the other hand I have a fairly well developed sense of personal values. My Fi is much stronger than my Fe regardless of what the theory says it is supposed to be.

    I'm not really saying that Ti is only good for analyzing, because I use it a lot. It's extremely practical. But I could never define myself by my ideas. Even before I knew about MBTI I envisioned myself as a great introverted thinker, i.e. an INTP type, but eventually I realized that it really wasn't me. The ideas have to be applied in some practical manner, and I didn't have a sense of purpose about how to apply these ideas, until I developed a personal morality.

    I tried getting my core from Ti, but I really think that only works for IxTP's. My identity seems to come more from wanting to have an impact on the world around me. I need a sense of purpose to do this and that comes from my Fi. Ti has always been insufficient in providing me with an identity.

    P.S. I really think Socrates is an ENTP rather than INTP.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Do you know what I find a big chameleoning?
    The fact, that for long we had had pseudo-Ns here (and on INTPc as well), because many of you think that N=intelligence, S=bluntness.
    So because of the peer pressure some of you used to be hiding their S-ness because you thought that it's something you should be ashamed about.
    That's a big chameleoning!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    I know an ENFJ who's a big chameleon as well.
    Holy sh*t. I talked to an ENFJ for a while and the whole time I didn't realize it. I was being chameleoned. A chameleon chameleoning a chameleon.

  9. #29
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    BlueWing you have this way of turning everything into a discussion about philosophers, philosophy, and their type. People could be talking about ironing underwear and duckpin bowling and yet you'd find a way to make it about philosophy.

    I think this is something I need to learn because I have this habit of talking to people and actually being somewhat attentive to topic. This isn't always a good thing, especially when I want people to shut up and leave me alone. If only I could learn how to stop being so relevant. I'm going to take a page out of your book and learn this valuable life skill.

    Teach me.
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  10. #30
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I think this is something I need to learn because I have this habit of talking to people and actually being somewhat attentive to topic. This isn't always a good thing, especially when I want people to shut up and leave me alone. If only I could learn how to stop being so relevant. I'm going to take a page out of your book and learn this valuable life skill.

    Teach me.
    Were you being sarcastic, proteanmix? Because I would tend to think that what you described is more of a flaw than a a skill. If you really did see that as a skill, why?

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