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Thread: XNTP & debating

  1. #51
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Do they flip flop or are they rigid? So confused . . . Anyway, if they seem to come at it from different angles or start to assume the opposite for arguments' sake, perhaps this is why:


    I'll even bring up a point that supports the other person but that s/he hasn't mentioned sometimes. It's not flipflopping. It's bringing it up to examine then incorporate/discard it.

    Certain people's drive to be deemed W1NNAR rather than be correct compels them to discount relevant, sometimes crucial, information or distinctions. I tend to see this as an over-investment in the point argued (and it strikes me as emotional).

    On the other hand, the "rigidness" complained of is often a reluctance to let compelling yet ultimately irrelevant points dirty the pool on the way to crystal clearness.
    +1
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #52
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Excuse me for being somewhat uneducated, I am still learning...but...

    ENTPs Ne-Ti order versus INTPs Ti-Ne order...in what ways does this affect them?

    What's an ENTPs thought process in a heated discussion?
    What's an INTPs thought process in a heated discussion?
    Ne-Ti - Shoot first, ask questions later.
    Ti-Ne - Ask questions first, shoot later.

    (joke ofcourse, but not all that far from the truth. :P )

    Basicly, Ti-Ne is naturally more defensively. An INTP will take more time to take recesses, and retreat within from a debate to gather and piece together information during a debate. They let their Ti roll a lot more during. Whilest an ENTP focusses more on the debate itself usually processing most of it afterwards. They let their Ne do most of the active work in a debate.

    But both INTP's and ENTP's do and use both, it's just that in these regards, INTPs and ENTPs slightly differ.

    Ofcourse it's more balanced than that example. But I think that's what makes the biggest difference in essence.

    Essentially the difference is really small. Both INTP's and ENTP's tend to reach similar conclusions. The process of leading up to that conclusion just differs slightly.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Ne-Ti - Shoot first, ask questions later.
    Ti-Ne - Ask questions first, shoot later.

    (joke ofcourse, but not all that far from the truth. :P )

    Basicly, Ti-Ne is naturally more defensively. An INTP will take more time to take recesses, and retreat within from a debate to gather and piece together information during a debate. They let their Ti roll a lot more during. Whilest an ENTP focusses more on the debate itself usually processing most of it afterwards. They let their Ne do most of the active work in a debate.

    But both INTP's and ENTP's do and use both, it's just that in these regards, INTPs and ENTPs slightly differ.

    Ofcourse it's more balanced than that example. But I think that's what makes the biggest difference in essence.

    Essentially the difference is really small. Both INTP's and ENTP's tend to reach similar conclusions. The process of leading up to that conclusion just differs slightly.
    nooooo...in my experience the conclusions reached are fairly different...ENTPs conclusions match those reached by the INTJ...not sure who matches with INTP...ENTJ?

    other than that, i put my stamp of approval on the rest of this post cuz...you know...nothing in this world moves without getting approved by me first

  4. #54
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    One thing I notce about myself is I don't explain explain all of the logical steps/scientific basis for my points, i just presume that the other party will give me the benefit of the doubt, or that they understand what I understand. The latter is particularly annoying, I must say...... (since its really my fault for not explaining everything)

  5. #55
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    If an INTP is rigid, there are probably a few reasons for it:

    1. They're agitated
    2. They could very strongly believe that they are right and could be zealous about it. (It's funny because all you have to do is only argue for an hour. They'll still think they're right, but their views will be changed to your side...if you're a good enough debater.)
    3. Other stuff.

    If an INTP is flip-floppy, this could also be for a few different reasons:

    1. If the debate has drug on without going anywhere, they could be playing devil's advocate.
    2. It could be a change of tactics, "attacking" your view.
    3. They may not have a strong opinion and are letting out verbally about 5% of what's going on in their head.
    4. etc.

    Good luck actually trying to change an INTP's mind though. You've got to really know your stuff or manage to hit some kind of truth while BS'ing.
    I'm not sure I agree.

    If I appear "Rigid" its because I am busy thinking about your argument and my own using my Ti. If you give a new opinion, it is received and fed straight into my Ti to test for worth, where it will be compared--impartially--to my current views on the subject. This may sound like a chore or even robotic but believe me; I find the process to be organic and swift. Outwardly I might seem rigid but inside I'm having a ball!

    More often than not I will be flippy-floppy. To explain this behaviour, it is vital you understand how an INTP views the action of debating.
    I do NOT debate to win, show off, or to attack the views of others.
    I debate because its fun and its a way to better my understanding and thus myself.
    So imagine an INTP's thoughts when he is considering your argument and he comes across another argument contrary to his own. He does not care about winning, but he does care about finding the truth. Of course he states this new argument!

    If I "lose" a debate I gain understanding.
    If I "win" a debate I gain nothing.

    But people always think im BS'ing when I tell them I want to be proven wrong.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  6. #56
    . Blank's Avatar
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    I wasn't trying to insinuate that those were the ONLY cases where an INTP could be rigid or flip-floppy. I could totally picture the INTP robot having to stop motion to grind the wheels in its head. It's kind of what we do, but that's a different thing than being rigid, in my opinion.

    Being rigid in my eyes means being unwilling to bend or move, and I would consider #3 that I listed in flip-floppy to be the case at least 80% of the time.

    Then again, I'm just making stuff up as I go along, so feel free to poke holes in it.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

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