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Thread: XNTP & debating

  1. #11
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Hahaha oh I don't know about that

    Our debates end with finding out we're arguing two completely different things. It's like a communication breakdown
    Yes, same with me and my ENFP.

    At least now we can laugh about it, but he used to drive me absolutely insane, so that for a long time I was just put off talking to him at all about anything more interesting than the weather, in case it happened again.

    Turns out every time, always the same, that we were arguing against what each other was NOT saying, and in fact, both agree with each other once we establish at last what we ARE saying!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  2. #12
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    that's how I feel with my INTP friend, Substitute! It's so frustrating :-/ sometimes we laugh about it, sometimes we're pissed

  3. #13
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    that does make sense, Blackmail. How do you think Fi (like mine being ENFP) and Fe clash as a 4th function in INTPs?
    Well, most of the time, INTPs are almost devoid of any F function. They are global system thinkers, they simply do not understand Feelers, or look very childish when under the influence of Fe or Fi.

    And you know, people often attack what they do not understand, or pretend it doesn't exist if the new parameter doesn't seem to fit, if they cannot integrate it into their internal system.

    ---

    A typical ENTP will also experience lot of difficulties to understand Fi (it's really alien for us), but at last, we do not dismiss it as a possible valid behavior. You won't be judged or considered "inferior" for that. It's the magic of Ne-dom!
    And most of the time, we are more curious than obnoxiously argumentative. We are curious even of Fi, and what this function could possibly mean.

    Extreme intellectual curiosity is a distinct trait we share with our ENFP brethren. We take into consideration every possibility, however dissonant it may appear at first glance. Anything that gets us out of boredoom.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  4. #14
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I only seem to use Fe among friends and family. But never elsewhere.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #15
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    how can you tell the difference between ENTPs and INTPs in the style that they debate?
    Beat ya at your own game. I'd say that's the striking difference between ENTP and INTP in debates. I think it's the effect of Ne leading versus Ti leading....and then, Fe coming up more predominately in ENTP than INTP.

    Meaning, it makes an ENTP dance hither and tither in an argument, while an INTP charts the pre-determined course. But, Ti allows both to keep a focus on the central theme of the argument. Ever the NT.

    I will come into a debate with my rationalizations (inferred demand for logic, etc, etc), and, if I see that the other isn't meeting me there, yet, holding strong....and my curiosity is piqued enough, I will take it on as a personal challenge, to meet them in their playing field, and annihilate them.

    So, if they want to get all metaphorical on me (lack 'logic'), and if I am interested enough to play, I will take on the debate in 'their terms' and volley back, presented in the same context they offered, while countering.

    As a generalization, from what I've encountered, I can mimic well the patterns of my receipient and morph my position to be presented accordingly, while an INTP sticks to their 'style', irregardless of the receipient's mode.

    This might explain why you:

    enjoy debating with ENTPs but not with INTPs and I can't put my finger on why.
    Ne is open to possibilites, and Fe picks up well the nuances of the receipient's context. The good side of the coin.

    The bad side of this coin:

    This could also be the reason I know, without a doubt, that I sometimes antagonize, irritate, and rub some other's the wrong way (with their perceived distate of my supposed arrogance) when engaging in a debate.

    (I know full well who wants to see my ass get owned)....it amuses me to no end.

    Just as easily as I can morph to entertain your point of view, I can just as easily manipulate them....which, most times, leads my receipients to respond with thundering silence. Or, dissolve the argument into personal affront turned insults. Which, I'm also game.

    Cuz I'm a prick with whom they won't get anywhere (except, starting to get under their skin ). I make their playing field mine more than theirs and the territory crossing doesn't sit well with some others. But, it's within my control...and I usually resort to this when I feel a vibe that they're aiming to move away from a civilized debate/exchange. Then, yes, the gauntlet will be swung.

    Ya bring the game, I aim to finish it. Online forums are not as fun in playing this out as in real life in real time, though....

    If, on the other hand, you want to engage in a debate to exchange ideas, thoughts, and we meet at that level....then, there's no game, just exciting exchange of knowledge. You will get my utmost respect.

    Play to the audience, I guess.

    * but, that's just this one ENTP's perception...so, take that how ya will.

  6. #16
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    As a generalization, from what I've encountered, I can mimic well the patterns of my receipient and morph my position to be presented accordingly, while an INTP sticks to their 'style', irregardless of the receipient's mode.
    Exactly.

  7. #17
    . Blank's Avatar
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    You make it sound as though an INTP can't play by someone else's rules and beat them at their own debate.

    I do it all of the time in a condescending way to show my greater intelligence.
    /intelligence complex/
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  8. #18
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    This thread makes me want to debate someone right now. Preferably an ENFP.

  9. #19
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    You make it sound as though an INTP can't play by someone else's rules and beat them at their own debate.

    I do it all of the time in a condescending way to show my greater intelligence.
    /intelligence complex/
    And this is the point. I don't condescend to anyone, I just speak in their comfort zone. I can cross into nastier tones if that's what I'm faced with, but I never lead with that.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    You make it sound as though an INTP can't play by someone else's rules and beat them at their own debate.
    How did you infer this?

    More accurately, I made it sound like, compared between an ENTP and an INTP, as a personality profile, an ENTP would be better equipped at this than INTP (see my justification through functional orders).

    To give real world applicability, from my own perspective as an ENTP, engaging with INTPs, this has been the case. You could very well prove this wrong. But, this would not be about comparing an ENTP and an INTP profile, then, but, comparing you to me. Where I just happen to be of the ENTP variety, and you of the INTP variety.

    Ya wanna play?

    I do it all of the time in a condescending way to show my greater intelligence.
    /intelligence complex/
    All the time? To prove your intelligence? Meh. Me? I don't gotta prove my intelligence, just disprove theirs if (and only if) they come off condescending. My content of the debate, are my testement to my intelligence, regardless of the bells and whistles (context, being secondary aim of mine..if even an aim, depends).

    My main aim and challenge is to always impress myself first, if my audience happens to be as well, meh, so be it. And, as much as I can bullshit others, I can't bullshit myself. Which makes this challenge, imo, more worthy.

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