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  1. #1
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Default The Longstanding Debate

    I just want to start this off with this awesome smiley...anyway.

    I am, obviously, an INTP. My friend is an ENFP, and my girlfriend is an ISFJ, and both of them vehemetly argue this point against me all the time.
    They say I shouldn't try to "figure People out" by using one conversation or just a few clues. I say that if I CAN, I SHOULD.

    You see, I just use the way I think about everything, the way I solve everything, and apply it to human interaction. This is how I manipulated social situations, and with no help other than from a personal epiphany realized exactly what I needed to do to do to become "popular" (believe me though, I gave it up, and quick, I was less happy than before) and how to get girls that were attractive to date me, to one I am now engaged.

    I pretty much realized that humans have rules, like everything else, and I pick up on them quick. I don't think people like this because they don't want to think they can be figured out.

    My friend, for example, lets call him ENFP...lol. He often will be like, "This girl I know is cool." And then I will meet her...and can tell instantly what kind of girl she is. From her truck, to the inside of it, to how much she talked, to the music she listend to and even her clothes.
    I find that people WANT to tell you something about them by thier clothes, even if that something is sometimes "I DON'T want to tell you something from my clothes"

    I got that vibe from her, which is my way of figuring out she was stupid and other things. My friend, however, wouldnt listen to me. Saying that she was still cool.
    This is how things turned out.

    She told us she would give us a ride home from work, we both didnt have liccenses and worked the same place, but before then went to a chinese resteraunt and got completelly smashed. Stole alchohol, and bragged abotu how she cheated on her husband a bunch because he was "bad at it"

    Also would show up to work an hour hours late, which is no big deal, but she was giving us rides (its was a predicament, i had no other choice) . And would sometimes just not come after saying she would.
    WOuld tell my friend to hold onto the wheel while she snorted drugs on a cd while driving.

    I quickly found a diff way to work. My friend didnt.
    The only time he did was when she stopped giving him rides, then he thought she was unsavory.

    I do this alot, i figure people out, and I KNOW i can because ive been doing it for years. I think its also because I have no authority behind me, and also people want to delude themselves.

    By the way, Im not claiming to be psychic or anything, i dont figure out peoples hopes and dreams or what they WANT to do or WANT to be. I figure out what they DO, what they WILL do.

    SO!

    Why do you think people delude themselves/ Do you think its possible to figure people out?

  2. #2
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think that's pure Ti business to figure people out. One should just keep an open mind over the course of his life, otherwise one is prone to develop prejudice. The thing about personality is that it is dynamic and evolves over the centuries taking on new faces, while the basic faculties seem to persist.

    I quitted to figure people out, though I still do it for myself, I quitted talking with them about it.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I quitted to figure people out, though I still do it for myself, I quitted talking with them about it.

    i think that might be a good idea...

  4. #4
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I say it's possible to figure out a lot about a person from one meeting, but to get the full picture you'd have to use all the functions to their maximum, otherwise you're missing information and possible interpretations of that info.

    So whilst it's theoretically possible, I'd say that for most people it's unwise. There ain't much my Ne misses, but I've still been wrong about people now and again.

    (just now and again, the exceptions that prove the rule )
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #5
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I say it's possible to figure out a lot about a person from one meeting, but to get the full picture you'd have to use all the functions to their maximum, otherwise you're missing information and possible interpretations of that info.

    So whilst it's theoretically possible, I'd say that for most people it's unwise. There ain't much my Ne misses, but I've still been wrong about people now and again.

    (just now and again, the exceptions that prove the rule )
    Right, I have been off about people, but only once was it bad...and that was REALLY off. But I also had personaly stake in it so...probably shouldnt have trusted myself.
    But I mean, I use this to "call it" about people since I was in Grade School, and its never failed me except for one time, and I have told people things, and they dont believe me.

    So either they are stupid, or know Im probably right and dont want to admit it for some reason. LIke my friend wanting to fornicate with aforementioned psycho girl.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  6. #6
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therationaledge View Post
    Right, I have been off about people, but only once was it bad...and that was REALLY off. But I also had personaly stake in it so...probably shouldnt have trusted myself.
    But I mean, I use this to "call it" about people since I was in Grade School, and its never failed me except for one time, and I have told people things, and they dont believe me.

    So either they are stupid, or know Im probably right and dont want to admit it for some reason. LIke my friend wanting to fornicate with aforementioned psycho girl.
    Or you've been wrong about other people, but just don't realize it yet.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #7
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Or you've been wrong about other people, but just don't realize it yet.
    There is always the chance, but generally I dont actually consider it "called" if I don't see how they act most of the time. And the amount of times I HAVE "called it" logically lead me to trust in my ability to pick up on things.

    I mean, its not that unbelievable is it? Aren't there people who have amazing deductive abilities? (Not counting fictional characters)

    Besides, the way I like to put it is I don't figure someones hopes and dreams and aspiritions. I figure what they actually do. Thier Mask v.s. their Face. But if you wear a Mask for years and dont take it off...see what I'm saying
    I figure out the logical thing to figure out. What someones does and will do.

    I'm not saying I can read minds or do anything out of the ordinary, I just know which things to pick up on, and what they mean.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

  8. #8
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Sounds fine to me.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  9. #9
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therationaledge View Post
    I just want to start this off with this awesome smiley...anyway.

    I am, obviously, an INTP. My friend is an ENFP, and my girlfriend is an ISFJ, and both of them vehemetly argue this point against me all the time.
    They say I shouldn't try to "figure People out" by using one conversation or just a few clues. I say that if I CAN, I SHOULD.

    You see, I just use the way I think about everything, the way I solve everything, and apply it to human interaction. This is how I manipulated social situations, and with no help other than from a personal epiphany realized exactly what I needed to do to do to become "popular" (believe me though, I gave it up, and quick, I was less happy than before) and how to get girls that were attractive to date me, to one I am now engaged.

    I pretty much realized that humans have rules, like everything else, and I pick up on them quick. I don't think people like this because they don't want to think they can be figured out.

    My friend, for example, lets call him ENFP...lol. He often will be like, "This girl I know is cool." And then I will meet her...and can tell instantly what kind of girl she is. From her truck, to the inside of it, to how much she talked, to the music she listend to and even her clothes.
    I find that people WANT to tell you something about them by thier clothes, even if that something is sometimes "I DON'T want to tell you something from my clothes"

    I got that vibe from her, which is my way of figuring out she was stupid and other things. My friend, however, wouldnt listen to me. Saying that she was still cool.
    This is how things turned out.

    She told us she would give us a ride home from work, we both didnt have liccenses and worked the same place, but before then went to a chinese resteraunt and got completelly smashed. Stole alchohol, and bragged abotu how she cheated on her husband a bunch because he was "bad at it"

    Also would show up to work an hour hours late, which is no big deal, but she was giving us rides (its was a predicament, i had no other choice) . And would sometimes just not come after saying she would.
    WOuld tell my friend to hold onto the wheel while she snorted drugs on a cd while driving.

    I quickly found a diff way to work. My friend didnt.
    The only time he did was when she stopped giving him rides, then he thought she was unsavory.

    I do this alot, i figure people out, and I KNOW i can because ive been doing it for years. I think its also because I have no authority behind me, and also people want to delude themselves.

    By the way, Im not claiming to be psychic or anything, i dont figure out peoples hopes and dreams or what they WANT to do or WANT to be. I figure out what they DO, what they WILL do.

    SO!

    Why do you think people delude themselves/ Do you think its possible to figure people out?
    well...i think maybe the person you haven't figured out is your enfp friend and the fact that he likely judges very different things then you do...and to him the only unacceptable thing was how she treated him...hence only changing his opinion once she proved herself untrustworthy...to him.

    and...i don't think people delude themselves. i just think they value different things then you do.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #10
    Senior Member therationaledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    well...i think maybe the person you haven't figured out is your enfp friend and the fact that he likely judges very different things then you do...and to him the only unacceptable thing was how she treated him...hence only changing his opinion once she proved herself untrustworthy...to him.

    and...i don't think people delude themselves. i just think they value different things then you do.
    Lol. I know it might have seemed like that. But trust me, if I have ANYONE figured out it is good ole' ENFP.

    He wants to give everyone a chance, regardless of what they do. If it is a male, it is because he looks up to that person. Since he has been estranged by his father AND grandfather it is not unreasonable to think he just wants that kind of connection. They also are almost always overdomineering a**holes, and so is are his father and grandfather.
    If it is a girl, it is because he is a hopeless romantic who has ALWAYS dated those kinds of girls (in my original post) and had never had a healthy relationship. Plus, he should see, if person treats everyone a certain way, they will treat HIM a certain way.

    If he was thinking logically, he wouldnt go for the two types of people that have hurt him the most. My mother was...unsavory. So I found a mother figure that was DIFFERENT than her.

    He has put himself into a self made hell of repitition, and all he would need to climb out of the pit is to think logically for a moment.

    I mean, he sees what he wants, he knows what he is doing wrong, and he knows what to do, but cannot seem to find a way to put them all together, and he wonders why his life sucks.

    Yeah, I've got him called, I just don't agree.
    "You would lose your money," Sherlock Holmes remarked calmly. "As for the article I wrote it myself."

    "You!"

    "Yes, I have a turn both for observation and for deduction. The theories which I have expressed there, and which appear to you to be so chimerical are really extremely practical -- so practical that I depend upon them for my bread and cheese."

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