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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    N / S - Differential, in that open people and closed people don't tend to get along as well... but it seems like S:S and N:N tend to get along roughly equally (I think slightly worse for Ss, but... not terribly significant).

    T / F - Absolute; the more T you are, the less satisfied your partner is.

    J / P - Strangely enough, not statistically significant, except that male Js are more sexually satisfying to female partners. (The joke being - they get the job done). Or was it J female partners... hrmm... Well, one or the other.
    Hehe, the source of my biggest problems is probably, at this moment, the J/P difference (not related to the reason you brought up ). My husband is an INTJ but I could for some reason imagine that ISTP/INTJ would in some ways be an easier match than INTP/INTJ. The way INTJs plan and carry out can in a way resemble something linier (sorry can't formulate that better right now just an intuitive feeling) and I could imagine that the ISTPs concrete style of reasoning would appeal to the judging INTJ. Then again, my husband is a weak N so that may be why I came to that conclusion.

    My T preference is stronger than my husbands - pretty cool to be on the favourable side of the satisfaction scale - poor guy.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Of course Just as people are more complicated than MBTI/etc.

    ( http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ent-style.html might be interesting. I'm quite against personality being used for relationship information.)
    well i understand that but i mean you used the verbiage "very little to bearing" for E/I .. i think thats an overstatement .. for example in an E / I relationship, the E can actually have a significant drain on the I due to social over-exertion .. that can leads to all sorts of stress .. granted that with better communication, etc. that can be avoided but nevertheless it shouldn't be summarized as "little to no bearing" ..

    thats just one example ..

    Anyways, carry on ..

  3. #43
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkreuz View Post
    well i understand that but i mean you used the verbiage "very little to bearing" for E/I .. i think thats an overstatement .. for example in an E / I relationship, the E can actually have a significant drain on the I due to social over-exertion .. that can leads to all sorts of stress .. granted that with better communication, etc. that can be avoided but nevertheless it shouldn't be summarized as "little to no bearing" ..
    Oh, that's the mantra here. It's been shown quite a few times that the I/E divide isn't the fundamental issue... it's that a subset of Is are seriously avoidant, which is a huge problem for relationship styles. (I think the thread I linked touches on this, but if not, you can measure for yourself how scary some of the scores were).

    That isn't to say that partners at the extreme ends of I and E aren't an issue, but in general (and I/E is pretty normally distributed) it won't be. Double moping Is and double doing Es aren't significantly better off than the E dragging the I behind them, or the I slowing the E down.

    The general biological truth behind I/E is that Es are better suited to being happy and Is should learn from them. Having some in your life (my best friend, and my fiance's are both strong Es, for example) will only help.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    The general biological truth behind I/E is that Es are better suited to being happy and Is should learn from them. Having some in your life (my best friend, and my fiance's are both strong Es, for example) will only help.
    Well now thats a biased over generalization if I've ever seen one. Lock an E in a room by him or herself without any means of contacting the outside world. Do the same with an I. Then we'll see who is best suited to be happy.

    The truth is you feel safe making that over-generalization because this society we live in was by Es for Es. Is it any wonder that literacy is so low? Its only natural to assume Es are better suited to be happy because they get to enjoy life the way they want it in a world tailored to them.

    I too grew up with plenty of E's leading the path for me to follow and somehow I ended up growing up with issues revolving around the negative effects that lack of self-determination provided me with.

    So no, I don't believe the true path to happiness is to surround myself with E's. I'd like to live my life in a world that I mold for myself, not a world that the E's have molded for me to adapt to.

  5. #45
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkreuz View Post
    Well now thats a biased over generalization if I've ever seen one. Lock an E in a room by him or herself without any means of contacting the outside world. Do the same with an I. Then we'll see who is best suited to be happy.
    Biologically what I said is true - this is beyond personality test and such and an empirical comment.... Not in the biased sort of way, in the "extraverts have different wiring in their brains that cause higher levels of happiness and arousal than introverts" kind of thing.

    The truth is you feel safe making that over-generalization because this society we live in was by Es for Es. Is it any wonder that literacy is so low? Its only natural to assume Es are better suited to be happy because they get to enjoy life the way they want it in a world tailored to them.
    You are talking to someone who saw a psychologist about being overly withdrawn. I know what it's like. I still suffer from these issues.

    It doesn't change the biological reality.

    So no, I don't believe the true path to happiness is to surround myself with E's. I'd like to live my life in a world that I mold for myself, not a world that the E's have molded for me to adapt to.
    I didn't say that - I said having them around is helpful.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    "extraverts have different wiring in their brains that cause higher levels of happiness and arousal than introverts"
    And you never ask yourself why that is? You don't suppose it has to do with the environment in which they grow up? You don't suppose they have an environment that positively reinforces their E behavior?

    The way I see it thats equivalent to arguing (and im not deliberately trying to play the race card here) that black people are biologically intellectually inferior when throughout the better part of american history, whites have done everything possible to negatively suppress them ..

    Sorry if I don't agree with that biologically analysis but when you raise a person in an environment custom tailored for that person, it shouldn't come as a surprise that their nervous system is better developed vs one raised in an antagonistic environment ..

    However, I will agree that given the E oriented world, yes E's as a whole will naturally be happier than I's as a whole. That's common sense.

    That still doesn't mean that an I should adapt their ways to E in order to be happier. Sorry I find myself getting depressed, not happy, by that thought.


    I didn't say that - I said having them around is helpful.
    Well in that case having everyone around is helpful. But you said that I's should learn from them. While I agree all people should learn from all people, the way you said "learn from them" seemed to suggest to me the equivalent of "adapt" .. E is happier than I, therefore I should learn from E.

    That doesn't take into account that E's happiness comes from the means of being social, and I would have to pursue being social to achieve an ends (which is 50/50 if its there).

    Like I said, its far more complex than that, but I have to pick up my wife (who is an E, and an incredible drain on me, hence I say what I say) .. so I give you the floor ...

  7. #47
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    alexkreuz, maybe these articles will help you understand what pt is getting at. To disregard the data that supports what he's saying just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't make it any less true.

    And I don't know if you know this, but E/I is about 50/50 in the American population (with I slightly edging out E).

    The PDFs are mostly related to the Five Factor Model. I don't know if they define extroversion and introversion the same way MBTI does, but the data in the articles suggest that extroversion is linked to a happier existence, basically in regards to having more social support and the desire to find adequate social support if necessary. I don't know if this is a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" situation, but this is the best data that researchers have out right now. I hope they know to take causality into consideration when doing these studies.

    Internet Usage and Adolescents
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    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkreuz View Post
    And you never ask yourself why that is? You don't suppose it has to do with the environment in which they grow up? You don't suppose they have an environment that positively reinforces their E behavior?
    Sure I have - it has to do with cortial arousal. It's been talked about here before (specific, entire thread)

    The way I see it thats equivalent to arguing (and im not deliberately trying to play the race card here) that black people are biologically intellectually inferior when throughout the better part of american history, whites have done everything possible to negatively suppress them ..
    It's not the same - it would be like saying (x) has a thinner brainstem and has been shown that during multitasking, that stem is active. It has also been shown that the brain stem relates to how well multiple tasks can be performed at the same time.

    In this case, (x) is men.

    Well in that case having everyone around is helpful. But you said that I's should learn from them. While I agree all people should learn from all people, the way you said "learn from them" seemed to suggest to me the equivalent of "adapt" .. E is happier than I, therefore I should learn from E.
    Ah, I see... in that sense, you are right. This was, however, about relationship costs... Although there are cases of the gap being a problem, when isolating variables, it is extremely rare that E/I is the underlying problem. In many cases, least in MBTI-talk, E and/or F is associated with neuroticism, which is the outburst/emotional stuff that is extremely draining.

    However, I will contend there is some truth to the stuff - E is happier and I, so I should learn from E. It isn't that simple, I agree, but it certainly isn't a bad idea either! Thing is, Is can't be like Es... fundamental wiring differences and all... but at the core of practical solutions, Is aren't all that different - the arousal of doing what the E does is a seriously important part of life. The I isn't well toned to do it and depression and such are linked to it... All I'm saying is do what you can to counteract it rather than embrace it. When all is said and done... it is possible and it is helpful.

  9. #49
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    I'm sorry, it's the nitpicky lawyer in me, but proteanmix, do you have any evidence to support the assertion that the U.S. is roughly 50/50 for extraversion versus introversion? I have an outdated book that indicates it's 70E/30I, and would be interested in reliable updated statistics. Thanks!

  10. #50
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. M View Post
    I'm sorry, it's the nitpicky lawyer in me, but proteanmix, do you have any evidence to support the assertion that the U.S. is roughly 50/50 for extraversion versus introversion? I have an outdated book that indicates it's 70E/30I, and would be interested in reliable updated statistics. Thanks!

    Estimated Frequencies of Types - CAPT.org

    Its come up a lot, might be able to search the forum for other talks on it. As a challenge, I dare you to find the first instance that showed the 70:30 mix... it took me a very very long time

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