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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default Driving NTs crazy: It's what Feelers do...

    Hi Guys,

    This got brought up on another thread but I wanted to dig a little deeper to try and understand the root of the problem. I have really pissed off thinkers in the past unintentionally by making assumptions and presumptions about how they feel internally. It totally took me by suprise and I felt terrible as it was unintentional. I would like to understand exactly how and what it is that feelers are doing that provokes this response. I think it may be something inherent that we do instinctually, but in order to not do it, I have to understand it.

    Her's a few quotes and some questions I was using to try and tease apart where the breakdown/miscommunication is occuring.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jenocyde
    I think there's a tendency for some people to project their feelings onto me because that's what they would feel if they were in my shoes. And when I assert that I do not feel that way at all, I am told that I am in denial or out of touch with my emotions.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digesthisickness
    bingo. or covering up/lying.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Edge
    yes, to me it seems like they are inventing my emotions and prosecuting me for them.
    the type to understand you the best has got to be your own.


    1) do you guys think you may be showing physiological signs of an emotional response but be unaware you are doing so? Ie you dont know what you are feeling exactly? So the NF picks it up subtle cues, tries to describe it, then screws up as you guys are still not even aware of exactly what is going on yourselves? (Just a Q I really have no idea, so no offense please)

    2) Is it this mistaken perception, or the following persecution that is most offensive? (persecution?? what is that exactly, as thats a crazy strong word, and I hope I'd never do that)

    3) Or is that maybe they saw and tried to describe what you were projecting outwards before you had a chance to understand it yourself? And thus it is the presumption that they understand that is so offensive, when you do not understand quite yet.

    4) does it bother you more that they try and descibe your thoughts, your feelings, or your motivations?

    5) Do you find this gets used as tool against you when in conflict with an NF? And then you are assigned feelings, motivations and such which are incorrect. (and on that note, potentially later, after analysis, could some of it have been correct?)

    6) is part of the offense that someone would even try and understand your emotions? Ie its none of our business in the first place?

    Again I have no idea, so no offense please, just trying to scope out the problem better

  2. #2
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Well, when it comes to this I thend to get annoyed but nothing more.



    The problem starts when a feeler starts to claim that you are lying to them and yourself. If a feeler just says "ok then" then everything is Ok.
    The problem (at leat in my case) is that feelers have a hard time picturing the "empthiness" of my mind.


    For example many people think I am afraid of people, what is simply is not true. It is just that I am not interested in a huge amount of things in which they are. Since I am so detached people like to presume that I am quite depressed what is not true as well.
    Especially since I have the tendency not to feel even when that would be quite normal or desirable.



    Also feelers are more likely to "exlpode" what means that you have to argue with them and if you do not you will make things even worse. But when you start to argue with them they start to think you are mean towards them. Sometimes they can even hold a grudge against you because of this since we can often good at arguing.

  3. #3
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Before I begin, what I write here depends on my relationship towards the feeler. The importance of that feeler to me. Generally, this is how I view such situations. But there are exceptions.

    1) do you guys think you may be showing physiological signs of an emotional response but be unaware you are doing so? Ie you dont know what you are feeling exactly? So the NF picks it up subtle cues, tries to describe it, then screws up as you guys are still not even aware of exactly what is going on yourselves? (Just a Q I really have no idea, so no offense please)

    I used to when I was younger and immature, when other peoples opinions mattered more to me than my own opinion, but not for some years now.

    2) Is it this mistaken perception, or the following persecution that is most offensive? (persecution?? what is that exactly, as thats a crazy strong word, and I hope I'd never do that)

    I think it differs from person to person. And maturity is also a big role in this. I think the stereotype is a misconception as not only NT's suffer from this when immature, all types do. Either way I do not have a particular problem with either anymore.

    3) Or is that maybe they saw and tried to describe what you were projecting outwards before you had a chance to understand it yourself? And thus it is the presumption that they understand that is so offensive, when you do not understand quite yet.

    When I am projecting, I've always had a very firm grasp on what I was projecting. That said, I may have an entirely different opinion about what it is then how a feeler would describe it. If a feeler would insist that I am wrong and they are right I would hold no respect for their opinion and just move on unscathed. But wether you believe I am clueless or not is not of my concern. It's more often than not mutual.

    4) does it bother you more that they try and descibe your thoughts, your feelings, or your motivations?

    Not at all, I often find it cute and harmless, even if I would disagree with them. Unless they attempt to force their opinions on me, in which case I will strategically retreat or if that's impossible sling some razorsharp comments at them that should be sufficient to quell the situation.

    5) Do you find this gets used as tool against you when in conflict with an NF? And then you are assigned feelings, motivations and such which are incorrect. (and on that note, potentially later, after analysis, could some of it have been correct?)

    Not at all. If anything, NF's with this conception only push them further away from me. Causing me to loose my respect in them, and thus the importance of their opinion over me. I do not care what the people I don't respect think about me. From my perspective, they only have themselves with such actions. As for 'could some of it be correct.'. I believe if we really want to we can find truths in everything. That doesn't mean one truth cancels out another truth. So no, they're never more right.

    6) is part of the offense that someone would even try and understand your emotions? Ie its none of our business in the first place?

    If I want to respect a feeler that is going offense to me, and I want to reach a consensus because the feeler is in some way important to me. Then my offense would be solely to reach a middle ground or a form of understanding. If I do not care about my relationship towards the feeler then I would put up no offense, bar a few words to be done with it. Ie. get them off my back. In no case am I concerned with what is and isn't their business. People believing they know me better then I know myself usually crack me up though.



    In the end, mutual respect is what matters most. I can totally respect a feelers view onto things, as long as they can give the same respect in return. So this is never a problem unless a feeler insists. And if they insist I will most assuredly break all ties, if that feeler is close to me. Or at least keep them on a controllable distance as to not get annoyed by their stuck up chauvanistic attitude constantly.

    If you're a feeler and you go offense on me, and I defend myself and argue back towards you. This should NEVER be seen as me being annoyed or cornered in any way. The only reason for my defense and offense towards you is solely based on the respect I have for you. And if anything should be considered a compliment. I never feel cornered or threatened when it comes to my opinions.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #4
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    1) do you guys think you may be showing physiological signs of an emotional response but be unaware you are doing so? Ie you dont know what you are feeling exactly? So the NF picks it up subtle cues, tries to describe it, then screws up as you guys are still not even aware of exactly what is going on yourselves? (Just a Q I really have no idea, so no offense please)

    Yeah definitely, but sometimes I notice that I've done one of these subtle cues while knowing it's not attached to any real emotion, or it is attached to an emotion, but it has nothing to do with what the person thinks it does i.e. I could have a skeptical look on my face while in thought, and then someone walks in, and I look at them while still looking skeptical. So they might think/feel I was having really critical thoughts about them, when it was about someone totally unrelated.

    2) Is it this mistaken perception, or the following persecution that is most offensive?

    Persecution, if I think it's inaccurate, more than the perception. I think feelers are likely to get the emotion right in identifying it in people, but can mistake the level of intensity. For instance, a light passing emotion in someone could get interpreted as a strong and deafening emotion.

    3) Or is that maybe they saw and tried to describe what you were projecting outwards before you had a chance to understand it yourself? And thus it is the presumption that they understand that is so offensive, when you do not understand quite yet.

    I don't mind this, I value the insight and new information. Even if something is wrong, it still reflects some part of reality and tells a certain truth.

    4) does it bother you more that they try and descibe your thoughts, your feelings, or your motivations?

    It can, but when I agree with what they're saying it definitely doesn't. If I disagree, then I feel like l have to clear something up.

    5) Do you find this gets used as tool against you when in conflict with an NF? And then you are assigned feelings, motivations and such which are incorrect. (and on that note, potentially later, after analysis, could some of it have been correct?)

    I have before, but I really haven't been in that many NF-emotional-traps.

    6) is part of the offense that someone would even try and understand your emotions? Ie its none of our business in the first place?

    Nah.

  5. #5
    Summer laintpe's Avatar
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    1) do you guys think you may be showing physiological signs of an emotional response but be unaware you are doing so? Ie you dont know what you are feeling exactly? So the NF picks it up subtle cues, tries to describe it, then screws up as you guys are still not even aware of exactly what is going on yourselves? (Just a Q I really have no idea, so no offense please)

    I mostly am accused of looking high or "out of it", but occasionally my friend will ask me what is wrong and i'll have no idea what inspired that question.

    2) Is it this mistaken perception, or the following persecution that is most offensive? (persecution?? what is that exactly, as thats a crazy strong word, and I hope I'd never do that)

    Neither really bothers me.. unless the person is incessant ("Tell me what is wrong! I know something is bothering you!" etc)

    3) Or is that maybe they saw and tried to describe what you were projecting outwards before you had a chance to understand it yourself? And thus it is the presumption that they understand that is so offensive, when you do not understand quite yet.

    not so much

    4) does it bother you more that they try and descibe your thoughts, your feelings, or your motivations?

    not really.. again, unless they are insisting and relentless... or if the topic is becoming useless.

    5) Do you find this gets used as tool against you when in conflict with an NF? And then you are assigned feelings, motivations and such which are incorrect. (and on that note, potentially later, after analysis, could some of it have been correct?)

    i don't really run into this. what bothers me more is when a certain esfp asks pointless questions or needs blunt "leave me alone" statements to realize he has depleted my patience reserves.

    6) is part of the offense that someone would even try and understand your emotions? Ie its none of our business in the first place?
    [B]Ti=Ne>Ni>Fe>Te=Fi>Si>Se

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    Quote Originally Posted by laintpe
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  6. #6
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    I just don't get why it upsets y'all when we don't feel something about a situation. When a Feeler is like, "How do you feel about this?" and my honest-to-God answer is, "I don't," he or she tends to act as if I'm trying to upset them.

    I know what emotion feels like. I just don't have an emotional response to every, or even most, situations. This doesn't make me a monster. This makes me an NT.

  7. #7
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Just answer with what you 'think' of it. Usually we just want an opinion, but we use the word 'feel' as that's how we determine things. It doesn't occur to us that you guys judge in a 'thinking' way
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  8. #8
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Depends on the feeler, Amargith.

    I've had situations in which I was asked about emotions where I responded admittedly quite cool and unemotional, a thorough explanation, as to my stance on the subject presented. And some people just go all eerie silence like as if I am some serial killer or something.

    I usually add an evil grin that really makes them think twice, teehee.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #9
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    none taken

    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    1) do you guys think you may be showing physiological signs of an emotional response but be unaware you are doing so? Ie you dont know what you are feeling exactly? So the NF picks it up subtle cues, tries to describe it, then screws up as you guys are still not even aware of exactly what is going on yourselves? (Just a Q I really have no idea, so no offense please)
    nope. we are usually always aware of what people think we SHOULD feel. dont mean we do. especially if its one of the taboo emotions like anger and jealousy. and theres not enough nude pics in the world to get me embarrased...or it just hasnt happened yet
    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    2) Is it this mistaken perception, or the following persecution that is most offensive? (persecution?? what is that exactly, as thats a crazy strong word, and I hope I'd never do that)
    i dont get what that means.

    if you mean that i think i should be feeling something but i just ignore it and you point this out leading me to get angry with you, then...

    well, it depends on the situation but in most cases emotions just don't show up like that. why? cuz i know the source of the feeling. once that mystry is out of the way, everything falls into it's correct places and reason takes over and emotion well...whatever hormones were released get subdueded i guess

    this mechanism can be overriden by obsessing over something...for me, THAT takes concious effort

    one thing i can't fully understand is love...or maybe i just dont want to

    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    3) Or is that maybe they saw and tried to describe what you were projecting outwards before you had a chance to understand it yourself? And thus it is the presumption that they understand that is so offensive, when you do not understand quite yet.
    that can very well be it...cuz that implies that entity B is telling entity A what entity A is doing. unless A has lots and lots of respect for B, A is prolly gonna punch B in the face

    that said, everyone has different way of dealing with emotions. so if the root of the emotion is point X, lets say it goes through point Y and then Z for for you as an ENFP.
    for me as an ENTP (or just another person), it might go through X then Y then M OR X then E then G

    so you see, you just might be projecting your emotions on to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    4) does it bother you more that they try and descibe your thoughts, your feelings, or your motivations?
    you imply that you understand me better than i understand than myself. thats like a kick to my ego's crotch. better know your audience first.

    also, it doesn't really bother me as much as it annoys me. why? because there is a chance that you might be wrong about my inner motivations. if i tell you that, you are gonna blame it on me beign in denial or not facing myself. what the hell am i supposed to do with an attitude like that?


    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    5) Do you find this gets used as tool against you when in conflict with an NF? And then you are assigned feelings, motivations and such which are incorrect. (and on that note, potentially later, after analysis, could some of it have been correct?)
    they try, but they constantly understimate me.

    trust me on this, if theres even a slight chance of me feeling something, ive probably alread explored that possibility. you might bring some valid and encouraging points to the table to help me highligh it. but this ONLY applies when i dont know what im feeling.

    if i do have some in linking to what im feeling and you try to tell me its something else then you are underestinmating my intelligence and doing a good job of convincing me that your ignorant

    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    6) is part of the offense that someone would even try and understand your emotions? Ie its none of our business in the first place?
    personally i dont really care...i am what i am. what you see is what you get, like it or love it

  10. #10
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Just answer with what you 'think' of it. Usually we just want an opinion, but we use the word 'feel' as that's how we determine things. It doesn't occur to us that you guys judge in a 'thinking' way
    And it doesn't occur to us that the feelers expect us to "feel" about something. I know when I say "I don't know" or "I have no feeling on that" or "I don't care" that's what I truly feel. It's not masking something else I want to keep secret. I don't have much of an issue with my NF now. But it took years for that understanding to come about. That and when I want to switch off and not talk and be alone, read, whatever, it's not a sign of a problem. I think, in general, the feelers want us to do exactly what they do. That isn't possible. I have to sometimes phrase things in different ways than I would naturally because they can sound blunt and hurtful and I realize that. All I ask is for the the feelers not to take not having a feeling on something as a personal slight.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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