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  1. #71
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yeah, but I've always suspected you were a closet INFP
    No, she's INFJ through and through.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    The phrase "optimistic and trusting until given a reason" could be written for me. Neither function can be labelled as optimistic/trusting or pessimistic/suspicious based on my own experiences of Ni/Ne doms.
    QFT. I find such statements quite ridiculous and ironic considering that Ne is being hailed as "optimistic and trusting."

  2. #72
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    No, she's INFJ through and through.
    I don't doubt it. Like I'm a pretty obvious ENTP and yet also a closet ENTJ
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #73
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yeah, but I've always suspected you were a closet INFP

    (if there's one thing an ENxP gives, it's feedback! I don't think anyone can really accuse an ENxP of not being open! usually we're being told to STFU for being too open, right when we're actually volunteering to you our inner workings, giving you the chance to listen and learn something about how we tick and what's important in our thinking processes...)
    Lol, no :P

    Yeah, ENPs may be good with giving feedback in a relationship; I was flowing with the conversation continuing on from Aderack... ime INTPs can be unforthcoming in that respect. (Not only INTPs, not always and I understand why). It's a particular communication hurdle for the two that has to be overcome somehow for the relationship to hum along with INFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    No, she's INFJ through and through.
    Heh, thanks Lauren... we really do have that doppelgänger thing going on.

  4. #74
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    An INFJ may find it difficult to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't give feedback though and that is likely where you will see the leaping to conclusions.
    Thing is, she didn't want feedback of any sort. Anything I might have to say that contradicted her own impressions, she called an "excuse" or a "euphemism".

    Once I tried to suggest to her that we weren't communicating well, and she grew furious with me, and said that was just a euphemism. "A euphemism for what?" I asked. No reply.

    Getting anything out of her was like pulling teeth. And it seemed almost completely arbitrary how she'd take anything I had to say.

    On the suspicion end, yeah. That's interesting. Eventually it got that she would spend her time actively searching for things I might have done that she could react negatively toward. If she was gone for a week, and I'd spent a bunch of time and effort while she was away cleaning and maintaining things, when she'd return, she would take the time to scour the apartment from room to room, searching for something I'd screwed up. When she'd find it, she'd wave it in my face and give me hell about it. How could I possibly not do X precisely the right way?! I'd mention that I had my own work to do, I wasn't used to the task, and if she hadn't noticed, I'd done W, Y, and Z. And I'd made some attempt at X, anyway. Never mind that, though. She'd found an excuse to be angry with me. Success! Hooray! More proof of... something.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Accept's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    It's more an accidental result of the process of trying to step into their shoes... often times that means I will ascribe certain feelings to things, but I am very open to being corrected.

    I only ever really engage in this when close to someone (it's how I bond with them, I need to know someone deeply and intimately); or if having an intriguing one-off conversation.

    In relationships I will be relentless in trying to map my SO's internal world.
    The charm and intrigue that is the INFJ. Of the types I've known the INFJ gets it right more than others. It's only a problem when they get it wrong. INTP can be stubborn at times, but it's nothing like a stubborn INFJ. Must be the J in turbocharge mode.


    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    I also keep revisiting something I don't quite have 'put to bed' as long as a person is open to discussing it. If I sense you are uncomfortable I will leave it be for a while until I can raise it again at a later date when you are comfortable.
    The only thing worse than discussing feelings of the moment is having to do so when they no longer apply. I prefer to have the INFJ listen at the time they bring it up, and however strange my reactions or feelings might seem to them, realize it is the truth. What can be said after the truth is told, but not believed?

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    I guess it can make them uncomfortable if I seem to know a lot about them and they know comparitively little about me. Though that never occurs to me, lol.

    If someone expresses discomfort to me, I tend to back off and stop engaging them that way.
    Maybe this is the most significant obstacle to an INTP/INFJ relationship. If it's difficult to know which of them withholds more, my experience has been that the INFJ is less likely to admit doing so until the INTP no longer cares. The most significant other in my life has always been too quick to back away, cutting off communication until it can be discussed as something from the past; a separation of what is from what was.
    As an INTP it isn't that I have secrets. I just have difficulty knowing what someone wants me to share, and why they even care. Anything asked can be answered, but answers aren't given without a question - this continually frustrates the INFJ of my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    It is not Machiavellian.
    True, but it can be annoying. I've never cared much what other feelers say about my feelings or reactions, but the INFJs are always my special weakness. What I accept is that I'm far more frustrating to them - something I've learned from those discussions of the past they seem to enjoy.
    “Naked to unknown forces, fortune evades mere understanding. The trial of effort.
    The dream of change. Such a place might Hell be to thought and action.”
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #76
    violaine
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    ^Very interesting, good to know. Yup, a person definitely needs to decide if they can handle what may be annoying about an INFJ in a relationship because the desire to dig deeply into the SO will always be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    Thing is, she didn't want feedback of any sort. Anything I might have to say that contradicted her own impressions, she called an "excuse" or a "euphemism".

    Once I tried to suggest to her that we weren't communicating well, and she grew furious with me, and said that was just a euphemism. "A euphemism for what?" I asked. No reply.

    Getting anything out of her was like pulling teeth. And it seemed almost completely arbitrary how she'd take anything I had to say.

    On the suspicion end, yeah. That's interesting. Eventually it got that she would spend her time actively searching for things I might have done that she could react negatively toward. If she was gone for a week, and I'd spent a bunch of time and effort while she was away cleaning and maintaining things, when she'd return, she would take the time to scour the apartment from room to room, searching for something I'd screwed up. When she'd find it, she'd wave it in my face and give me hell about it. How could I possibly not do X precisely the right way?! I'd mention that I had my own work to do, I wasn't used to the task, and if she hadn't noticed, I'd done W, Y, and Z. And I'd made some attempt at X, anyway. Never mind that, though. She'd found an excuse to be angry with me. Success! Hooray! More proof of... something.
    That behavior, as you've represented it, would also drive me crazy.

  7. #77
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Granted, yeah, you've only got my take on the matter. With my propensity for quintuple-guessing myself, you'll just have to trust that I've come at this from pretty much every possible angle. And my conclusion is urgh.

    I don't mean to imply that she's a definitive example of her respective type. She's clearly just not a very well-developed person. She's got a powerful father who has always given her whatever she wants whenever she wants it, and she measures everyone she meets against him.* As she explicitly told me a few times. She has no interest in give and take; she only wants to be entertained. That's got nothing to do with type; it's just her.

    Still, in respect to the title of the thread, well, there it all is.

    --

    * - Fun story: about six months before our initial split, she pleaded with me to buy for her an expensive digital camera. She'd split the cost with me, she said. I didn't have much money, but after some number crunching I agreed. She was overjoyed. I didn't have much use for the camera, so it was really just for her. She said she'd pay me back later. The following weekend, she went home and got her father to buy her a much better, even more expensive camera. When she returned, she didn't understand why I was annoyed with her. She said she'd pay me back! And here, I could use the camera if I wanted! Of course I didn't care if she repaid me or not. The money wasn't the point.

    She did this sort of thing fairly regularly.

    Later after our split, she took the camera and then claimed she lost it.

  8. #78
    violaine
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    ^Yeah, sounds rough. :/ (Btw wasn't taking a side, just trying to be balanced.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    She's got a powerful father who has always given her whatever she wants whenever she wants it, and she measures everyone she meets against him. As she explicitly told me a few times. She has no interest in give and take; she only wants to be entertained. That's got nothing to do with type; it's just her.
    ^P.S. Eww.

  9. #79
    Member Cady's Avatar
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    NF's - How are you? How are you feeling? Are you ok?

    Am I the only NT who feels sort of harassed when asked "how are you feeling?" ?
    It's really not the fault your guys' fault for asking it, sharing feelings and having to empathize/sympathize with people just isn't something I can get enthusiastic about
    Sleep late for a better tomorrow.

    Extraverted - 58%
    INtuitive - 73%
    Thinking - 71%
    Perceiving - 66%

  10. #80
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    I really need to finish polishing my thoughts before I hit the "submit" button.

    ...

    Anyway, yeah. I'm just... This has taken a while to deal with. I'm going to be bearing the fallout for a while yet.

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