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  1. #61
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    If only they were all like you. Unfortunately, an awful lot of them will not let that be the end of the conversation, because if you say No, then they want to know how it does make you feel and then argue with whatever you say, telling you you're wrong to feel it or taking your feeling as a judgement on them or someone else. And if you say yes, then ... etc...

    I don't think I can remember a single time when I've been asked how I felt, and the asker has been contented with a one word or short answer; can't remember one time in my life when they've asked me that, and weren't spoiling for a heart to heart that became a drama fest.
    This is absolutely true in my experience also. I can only attribute my ENFJ's ability to take a yes or no answer to him being male. My F women friends do exactly what you describe. Or want to but I rarely let them. And they can't fathom how you just don't have a feeling about something.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Nice one substitute.

    See i think this comes down to if it is worth putting the effort in in the first place.

    I do see where you are coming from. Yes most definately in the past, i have been given an answer and not been satisfied. I'm honest. Yes, i did expect people to think/feel on the same lines of me as we are all human beings.

    If only i knew about all these types a few years back, oh things would of been easier. Unless someone explains to me in a practical, logical way their thinking process then how am i to know they 'work' differently to me.
    That is why i appreciate the honesly and bluntness and communication. *sigh*

    If i am easier to read than yourself, and i express myself through feelings and logic. Doesn't it then make sense to clarify yourself and your thought process through communication as to how you 'work'?
    Does that make sense?
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  3. #63
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I love my feeler, I can listen to her for hours, because her mind comes up with things I would have never thought about.

    There are things that bug me about her attitude tho sometimes. I just dont know them at the moment, those things are always only present when they happen and tend to vanish afterwards :/
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwill View Post
    I used to have problems with feelers when I was younger, especially FJs--with added emphasis on EXFJs. The more insistent the feeler, the more annoying I found them. It's like those people who are extroverts who assume that the quiet minority of introverts must have something wrong with them. Only in the feeler's situation, they insist you are feeling something that you aren't. I think all types find it annoying to be falsely accused of something and then not have their accuser believe them after several denials.

    Anyway, I'm absolutely aware of my emotions. I think I always have been. It's just that I don't have a lot of them. I find it annoying when people insist that you have emotions that don't really exist.

    I had this feeling teacher who I hated as a teenager. She was always trying to hug me, and she said once that she could read the emotions on my face like a book. The only thing was, she was always waaaay off about what I was thinking. That presumption annoyed me. Thinkers Introverts are private about what emotions they do have, so it's annoying when some know-it-all tries to tell you what you're feeling.

    Now that I'm older, I don't really have these sort of experiences so much. I've learned how to pass better as a human being. Like, even though I hate people who oversmile, I make efforts to smile more so that people won't constantly mistake my restful expression for depression or hatred. And, in turn, I think feelers are a bit more tactful with what they say as they mature. The immature girl feelers who constantly ask questions like "Are you REALLY okay?" and "Are you mad at me?" curb their asinine questions as they get older.

    I'm a thinker who was raised in a family of all feelers. I never had communication problems with them. I got exasperated at their communication problems with each other, but... My family does the best thing they can for a thinker. They take me at face value and don't force too much of their emotions on me.
    I could've said that verbatim.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #65
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I am for the 15th time here now in like 20 minutes, but nothing comes to mind
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #66
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Doesn't it then make sense to clarify yourself and your thought process through communication as to how you 'work'?
    Does that make sense?
    In theory yes, it does. But my experience tells me that most of the time if I try to do this, it only ends up in even more misunderstanding, as things I say get taken the wrong way. And to be honest, when I'm in the middle of something or I'm just chilling or whatever, the last thing I feel like is morphing into a one-man psychology class and education campaign just to answer whatever question a bored Feeler has decided to fire at me.

    edit - especially when the answer is, very often, quite genuinely "I don't know". Because then the Feeler's just all psyched up to grill me over WHY I don't know or HOW I can't know and what's wrong with me and why aren't I more in touch with... etc etc ad nauseam

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    And they can't fathom how you just don't have a feeling about something.
    ...or that even if you do, you're not aware of it. and even if you are, you don't set any store by it, it's not part of your decision making process. It's virtually irrelevant, so why debate it?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #67
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Once, I vented to her about a situation that was bothering me and she told our other friend, "Tallulah was just so ANGRY! I had no idea how to calm her down!" Kind of blew my mind, because I wasn't angry--just frustrated--and it had nothing to do with her.
    Mm.

    Something else about my INFJ was never getting the benefit of the doubt about anything, ever. Whatever her initial impression of my meaning or motivation or intent, it was final -- however contrary to my nature or generally bizarre that impression might have been. You'd think after seven years she'd get used to the way I work.

    In the cases where her impression was especially strange, I got extra venom because that impression didn't make any sense. This, you see, just led her to believe I was turning more and more unreasonable. How could I possibly say or believe such strange things?!

    It didn't help that she rarely brought these impressions to my attention until months, or even years, later. Though even when she did so, it still helped little, as by then she had long since made up her mind. So any attempt to refute her findings, however gently, she took as personal criticism. Which just led her to bark at me for having "yelled at" her.

    So, yes, fun.

  8. #68
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aderack View Post
    Mm.

    Something else about my INFJ was never getting the benefit of the doubt about anything, ever. Whatever her initial impression of my meaning or motivation or intent, it was final -- however contrary to my nature or generally bizarre that impression might have been. You'd think after seven years she'd get used to the way I work.

    In the cases where her impression was especially strange, I got extra venom because that impression didn't make any sense. This, you see, just led her to believe I was turning more and more unreasonable. How could I possibly say or believe such strange things?!

    It didn't help that she rarely brought these impressions to my attention until months, or even years, later. Though even when she did so, it still helped little, as by then she had long since made up her mind. So any attempt to refute her findings, however gently, she took as personal criticism. Which just led her to bark at me for having "yelled at" her.

    So, yes, fun.


    Sorry, it's just so good to know I'm not the only one who gets this BS.

    Actually I remember a while back on this board, on quite a few occasions, having frank discussions with Ni dominant types where the total opposition of Ne to Ni attitudes were very much displayed - Ne being generally optimistic and trusting until given reason to do otherwise - and even then, still being open to revision, whilst Ni is by default suspicious and untrusting, looking for and seeing in everything confirmation of its suspicions. The phrase "benefit of the doubt" was exactly what I used at the time, and I think it was generally agreed that it's not a phrase in the Ni dominant's vocabulary!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #69
    violaine
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    This is different to my own experience as a Ni dom and I have found quite the opposite to be true with some Ne doms that I know. The phrase "optimistic and trusting until given a reason" could be written for me. Neither function can be labelled as optimistic/trusting or pessimistic/suspicious based on my own experiences of Ni/Ne doms.

    An INFJ may find it difficult to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't give feedback though and that is likely where you will see the leaping to conclusions. I view those kinds of problems as the result of a breakdown in communication between the INFJ and their SO. Also varies according to health, independence and self-esteem levels of the INFJ.

  10. #70
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    This is different to my own experience as a Ni dom and I have found quite the opposite to be true with some Ne doms that I know. The phrase "optimistic and trusting until given a reason" could be written for me. Neither function can be labelled as optimistic/trusting or pessimistic/suspicious based on my own experiences of Ni/Ne doms.

    An INFJ may find it difficult to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't give feedback though and that is likely where you will see the leaping to conclusions. I view those kinds of problems as the result of a breakdown in communication between the INFJ and their SO. Also varies according to health, independence and self-esteem levels of the INFJ.
    Yeah, but I've always suspected you were a closet INFP

    (if there's one thing an ENxP gives, it's feedback! I don't think anyone can really accuse an ENxP of not being open! usually we're being told to STFU for being too open, right when we're actually volunteering to you our inner workings, giving you the chance to listen and learn something about how we tick and what's important in our thinking processes...)
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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