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  1. #51
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Mm. It certainly matches my experiences, yes...

  2. #52
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    .. lol.

    I am well aware i can drive NT's crazy if not insane.

    Here is a little bit of advice though (if your willing to take it ) from a feeler.

    I am not a bloody mind reader. You do great poker faces. If i was to ask a question and you didn't want to answer it. Just explain why you don't want to answer it. Job done.

    Example -
    Me - why don't you talk about how you feel?
    NT - Sarah, i am just process my thoughts and i will get back to you. This is where i currently am and i will tell you my conclusion when i reach it.

    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  3. #53
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    .. lol.

    I am well aware i can drive NT's crazy if not insane.

    Here is a little bit of advice though (if your willing to take it ) from a feeler.

    I am not a bloody mind reader. You do great poker faces. If i was to ask a question and you didn't want to answer it. Just explain why you don't want to answer it. Job done.

    Example -
    Me - why don't you talk about how you feel?
    NT - Sarah, i am just process my thoughts and i will get back to you. This is where i currently am and i will tell you my conclusion when i reach it.

    There is only one thing that people can do to drive me insane. And it involves stupidity and stubborness. You're most definatly safe. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #54
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    There is only one thing that people can do to drive me insane. And it involves stupidity and stubborness. You're most definatly safe. :P
    Thank god for that as i thought someone on here might rip me a new asshole. lol .. there is still time.

    See i can be stubborn. If i feel an NT is becoming defensive with me, freaking all hell breaks lose as i won't back down. At that point you are fighting logic with logic but from totally different perspectives. For me it just comes down to blunt honesty.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  5. #55
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Stubborness in itself is a great aspect. I love it.

    But yeah, there's the good kind and the annoying kind which is coupled with stupidity usually.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #56
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Thank god for that as i thought someone on here might rip me a new asshole. lol .. there is still time.

    See i can be stubborn. If i feel an NT is becoming defensive with me, freaking all hell breaks lose as i won't back down. At that point you are fighting logic with logic but from totally different perspectives. For me it just comes down to blunt honesty.
    But here is the problem. From the feeler's perspective, they might think that there is an emotion that the NT isn't being honest about. From the NT's perspective, they ARE being honest in that they don't feel one way or another about the situation. If I am being honest and someone implies that I'm lying, it's not going to be pretty if the person keeps pushing. Because I will then stop trying to spare your feelings and be nice about it. People are always taken aback when that happens, but sheesh, they are the ones that pushed things too far. Generally, though, I just know that people who push are anathema to me, and we should stay away from each other for the good of society at large.
    Something Witty

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accept View Post
    It's been my good fortune to have two INFJs as friends for a few decades now, so the observation of their tenacity comes from the frustrations of communicating with their need to ascribe their emotional response as mine. While I admit they don't often push the issue, I've learned they also don't let it go. On occasion it will be brought up later. At other times they continue as nothing happened, confidant that they were right and basing our future on the flawed assumption. At other times they withdraw from the urge to argue, but with the confidence that they are right, and I am wrong, even though it is my emotional state being discussed. This creates separations, often lasting years. It is my loss. INFJ and INTJ are the types I most enjoy being around, but with the INFJs there are misunderstandings that don't exist with the INTJs.
    I recognize this kind of behavior.

    For me, it's that I am trying to map someone's internal world. I find most people highly interesting and I am always trying to inform myself. I want to know 'why' about everything. I don't stop trying to figure someone/something out until I reach a conclusion. It's not really about ascribing my feelings to a person in trying to understand their reactions to things. It's more an accidental result of the process of trying to step into their shoes... often times that means I will ascribe certain feelings to things, but I am very open to being corrected.

    I also keep revisiting something I don't quite have 'put to bed' as long as a person is open to discussing it. If I sense you are uncomfortable I will leave it be for a while until I can raise it again at a later date when you are comfortable.

    I only ever really engage in this when close to someone (it's how I bond with them, I need to know someone deeply and intimately); or if having an intriguing one-off conversation.

    In relationships I will be relentless in trying to map my SO's internal world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accept View Post
    It doesn't help that these INFJs avoid exposing the truth of their own feelings at the very time when sharing might bring an understanding of why we're not experiencing the same emotional response to the circumstance.
    I'm often not aware that I'm doing this because I am so caught up in my interest in another person. It's a blind spot. When someone points it out to me I make sure I share with them. It's not usually pointed out to me until long after we have talked about whatever was happening with the other person. I guess it can make them uncomfortable if I seem to know a lot about them and they know comparitively little about me. Though that never occurs to me, lol.

    But I would like to point out that the above style of engaging is often purely out of interest in people. It often occurs in a very detached, analytical way unless I am close to you. It will also happen when I find someone utterly intriguing. It is for the knowledge and with the hope of predicting behavior and understanding human behavior on a wider scale. It is not Machiavellian.

    If someone expresses discomfort to me, I tend to back off and stop engaging them that way.

    *sigh* People as puzzles!

  8. #58
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    But here is the problem. From the feeler's perspective, they might think that there is an emotion that the NT isn't being honest about. From the NT's perspective, they ARE being honest in that they don't feel one way or another about the situation.

    OK .. from a different angle, if i can sense something is wrong then i will ask questions. I don't necessarily need to know how you feel about it, just what you think. (something is better than nothing and stops the mind going into overdrive)
    The reply .. I think, this, this and this .. job done. Now i may attach emotions to it but i can not assume the other person is doing the same (in theory that sounds great)

    Again i can ask a question .. Does that situation make you feel ........... ?
    Yes or No would be the reply.
    End of conversation.

    I am a very caring human being and i protect all those i care about with a passion. Now if your weakness is your feelings just out of curiousity and mine is my thinking .. Is it a really bad thing, can these people not learn a few things from each other.

    When i first joined this site i stereotyped all you (especially) NTJ's .. i hated you lot .. You pissed me right off. Now, i have a new found respect for you all, i even like some of you .. hehehe .. Just because we might be at extremes on most things, doesn't mean i can't learn a few things from your logical thinking.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  9. #59
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Again i can ask a question .. Does that situation make you feel ........... ?
    Yes or No would be the reply.
    End of conversation.
    If only they were all like you. Unfortunately, an awful lot of them will not let that be the end of the conversation, because if you say No, then they want to know how it does make you feel and then argue with whatever you say, telling you you're wrong to feel it or taking your feeling as a judgement on them or someone else. And if you say yes, then ... etc...

    I don't think I can remember a single time when I've been asked how I felt, and the asker has been contented with a one word or short answer; can't remember one time in my life when they've asked me that, and weren't spoiling for a heart to heart that became a drama fest.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I have had this happen many times with many friends--on occasion this tendency has led to the end of the friendship. One friend, who was really not very close to me, anyway (she was much closer to a couple of my mutual friends, and we kind of ended up being friends because of that factor), was constantly misreading me. Once, I vented to her about a situation that was bothering me and she told our other friend, "Tallulah was just so ANGRY! I had no idea how to calm her down!" Kind of blew my mind, because I wasn't angry--just frustrated--and it had nothing to do with her. I just needed to talk my way through it. But SHE would have been angry in that situation, so she assumed I was. Other times, she would try to coax feelings out of me when I was indifferent to a situation. I just can't take stuff like that. If I tell you I don't feel a certain way, believe me. Not believing me is insulting and patronizing. If I feel patronized, I shut down, and I don't want to be around you.

    Yes - just today in fact I had a similar experience. I blogged about people I knew in the past rejecting me since my transition because they couldn't cope with it. Clearly in the post I described that it made me feel hurt, but that I accepted it and didn't blame them. Nowhere did I say I was angry or annoyed at those people or that I didn't think they had their reasons. But along comes an ENFP to lecture me about seeing the other people's points of view, putting words into my mouth by telling me that just because they find it hard to deal with doesn't make them bigoted... she's assuming that because SHE would judge people according to the feelings they cause in her, that if I'm saying something some people do hurts me, I must therefore be angry at them and dislike them.


    As for the mind reader thing saslou - I've lost count of the number of times I've been hamstrung because I failed both to psychically guess a Feeler's feelings, and to have the required emotional response, and so got passive aggression (the best kind for the confrontation avoidant) on full blast and all their emotions pinned onto me!

    I'm with Tallulah on that when people show these tendencies, the temptation to immadiately cut them out of my life to save myself a lot of unnecessary drama for little reward, is overwhelming. There has to be an outside motive for me to keep putting up with it; it has to benefit someone else in some important way for me to not give them their marching orders.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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