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  1. #81
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I wanted to add: in the end, everybody uses a mixture of F and T, therefore the OP question is flawed from the beginning, disregarding of whats said here.
    word, brother
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  2. #82
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    too much N is bad for your health. N is checked by S and T. Meaning that T and S help stabilize the N. F is more complementry to N. I hope that expklains what you want to know.
    Yep, that was all I meant... that F was complementary rather than checking it.

    Well, INFJs and ENFPs aren't exactly the most stable people, so you could have a point...

  3. #83
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    Hmmm, I'm still very puzzled about this notion of N and F being complimentary functions. My F has a very strange way of making a mess of N. Things like doubt, apprehension, admiration, all muddle the clarity of N. I, personally, want as much distance as possible from F after it's gotten the ball rolling. The unfolding of thought (the N part of the game) tends to go much more smoothly when F stays in the background.

  4. #84
    . Blank's Avatar
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    I can't believe I read this entire thread. -_-

    I personally think that too much focus has been placed on just NT. Being an NT is only half of it. You can be an NT, but the type of NT is also on how you experience reality, through perception or judgment.

    As an INTP, while I do use NT to sort through things, a lot of it also depends on how I get to the starting point with Perception. Even if I was a J, my thought process would be pretty different.

    Anyway, here's an example of an INTP's thought processes, brought on by Costrin's sig quote that the foundation of all humor is in truth or something like that.

    Step 1:
    Noticing the quote and thinking on it (P)

    Step 2: Contemplation
    1st layer thought: I don't think that's true.
    2nd (Si): Stereotypes aren't really true, yet there are many humorous stereotypical jokes.
    3rd (Fi, WTF, an INTP using Fi!?): I may just not want to accept that some stereotypes are based in reality since that goes against my value system, MOVING ON!
    4th (Ne): Well, a dog jumping out of a car and then rolling around is funny, but is there a truth like that associated with the stereotype thing?
    5th (Ti): Well, I suppose the "truth" is that it actually happened in reality.
    6th (Ti): Well, if you want to argue from that point, then I suppose everything "truly" happens in reality, so I will concede that point.

    Step 3: Doublecheck and (possible) Conclusion
    I will, for now, say that since everything tends to be based in reality, which is objectively "true," Costrin can adequately defend that quote if I challenged him and he used that angle; however, the nature of truth is unstable and undefinable at best so the argument would get nowhere if I choose to argue semantics. -Route 1.

    Step 4: Revision
    Ideas(Ne) --> Conclusion(Ti) --> Route 2

    ==========
    Note* If I happen to intuitively bring up a novel thought and rationalize it thoroughly enough to where I see it is impeccable, I could choose to accept it and give it inner value, influencing my perception of the world until it is proven wrong or until a better solution replaces it.

    I think as an NT, I'm more open to the world throwing me a curveball and alternating my path than say, an ST (who is rigid) or an NF (who could be thrown out of equilibrium.)
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  5. #85
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Anyway, here's an example of an INTP's thought processes, brought on by Costrin's sig quote that the foundation of all humor is in truth or something like that.

    Step 1:
    Noticing the quote and thinking on it (P)

    Step 2: Contemplation
    1st layer thought: I don't think that's true.
    2nd (Si): Stereotypes aren't really true, yet there are many humorous stereotypical jokes.
    3rd (Fi, WTF, an INTP using Fi!?): I may just not want to accept that some stereotypes are based in reality since that goes against my value system, MOVING ON!
    4th (Ne): Well, a dog jumping out of a car and then rolling around is funny, but is there a truth like that associated with the stereotype thing?
    5th (Ti): Well, I suppose the "truth" is that it actually happened in reality.
    6th (Ti): Well, if you want to argue from that point, then I suppose everything "truly" happens in reality, so I will concede that point.

    Step 3: Doublecheck and (possible) Conclusion
    I will, for now, say that since everything tends to be based in reality, which is objectively "true," Costrin can adequately defend that quote if I challenged him and he used that angle; however, the nature of truth is unstable and undefinable at best so the argument would get nowhere if I choose to argue semantics. -Route 1.

    Step 4: Revision
    Ideas(Ne) --> Conclusion(Ti) --> Route 2
    Wee!

    But even a blatantly false statement has an element of truth. Not necessarily in the objective literal definition of the statement, but in the making and the knowledge required to understand it, there is a truth. "Elephants are fish" is blatantly false, but there is the truth that elephants exist at least in concept, that fish is a type of classification that elephants could theoretically be classified under, that elephants are not in fact fish and it would be ridiculous to think they are. Then there's the truths of the thought process of the author of the statement at the time it was made, and the context of the statement, the possible intended interpretations, etc. And the "anti-truths", or truth that some concept or another is false or does not exist, is not present, etc. *insert meta-etc here*
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  6. #86
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    NT must go together or there wouldn't be Western philosophy.

    As for SF not going together, I actually think they do, in fact, go together. Sensing + Feeling = Sensualism, which seems more common to me than NF (it is actually more common in the general population, n'est-ce pas?)

  7. #87
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    Hmmm, I'm still very puzzled about this notion of N and F being complimentary functions. My F has a very strange way of making a mess of N. Things like doubt, apprehension, admiration, all muddle the clarity of N. I, personally, want as much distance as possible from F after it's gotten the ball rolling. The unfolding of thought (the N part of the game) tends to go much more smoothly when F stays in the background.
    how does your T react to all of this, out of curiosity?
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    how does your T react to all of this, out of curiosity?
    This series of posts? They're interesting to watch. Marmalade's post is probably the most reasonable one so far...and it probably goes a long way in explaining my own life choices.

    What are your thoughts on it?

  9. #89
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    NT must go together or there wouldn't be Western philosophy.
    I'm not an NT, and I think Western philosophy makes perfect sense. More than almost anything else I know of. I even came up with ideas similar or the same as those contained in it, just through contemplation, before ever being exposed to it.

    Why do you say this? What do NTs have to do with it? I always had the impression that they, in general, were more about applying knowledge in a practical way, or figuring out new ways of doing or viewing things. I figured philosophy was just an N hobby, not an NT hobby (since it's usually not objective or useful). Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have called myself "Athenian."
    As for SF not going together, I actually think they do, in fact, go together. Sensing + Feeling = Sensualism, which seems more common to me than NF (it is actually more common in the general population, n'est-ce pas?)
    Okay, I admit I didn't put much thought into the SF one. I was mostly just focused on the NT one.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'm not an NT, and I think Western philosophy makes perfect sense. More than almost anything else I know of. I even came up with ideas similar or the same as those contained in it, just through contemplation, before ever being exposed to it.

    .

    Although you may agree with Western philosophy, you didn't create it. I'm not going to generalize, but I would be willing to bet that many people who actually "do" Philosophy professionally are NTs because it requires the ability for subjective analysis and insight that some NFs also have, but I think that NT would be more prone to stick with logic even when his or her values were challenged. Logical thinking is absolutely imperitive to actually "doing" most Western Philosophy. Again, I don't want to generalize, because not all Western Philsophy is even the same (for example, I think that Kant was much more rational than Nietszche).

    Of course there's a subjective choice in Western Philosophy, say between Rousseau and Hobbes, or even for an existentialist between Nietszche and Sartre.

    But I think an NT would be best at logically deconstructing why Ayn Rand wasn't really a philosopher, where as an NF just might keep arguing points of Rand's that he or she didn't agree with.

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