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  1. #51
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post


    I see I'm going to have to define "linear."

    Basically, I'm implying that Thinking is rather flat and one-dimensional, especially compared to Intuition. Everything is "true" or "false" with no nuance.
    Ah ha, I think I getcha: the T view of the world is un-nunanced, having as it seems just two dimensions, true and false.

    We could go ahead and speak of the T worldview in its subjective terms, in which case we get a plethora of other adjectives, true, false, known true, uncertain, possible, confusing, rank amateur silly, "Wow check out the beauty in the form of that statement," and so on.

    Maybe a bit like we could go ahead and insist on an objective view of the feeling world, categorising all feelings according to the two most fundamental evaluations, good and bad.


    That's so ka'squiggled I'm tightening my belt another notch just to keep from spinning.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Now that would really dismantle the discussion.
    What discussion? What could it possibly mean to say that "thinking is one-dimensional" or "thinking is linear". It's nonsense, and is only metaphorical at best (I could generously interpret it as saying "thinking is limited", but I'm not in the business of constructing banalities). I can't even argue against it because it doesn't say anything at all.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

  3. #53
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Basically, I'm implying that Thinking is rather flat and one-dimensional, especially compared to Intuition. Everything is "true" or "false" with no nuance.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

  4. #54
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, I keep rereading Jock's post over and over and laughing like new each time. It should win some sort of award.

    "my icy black NT heart", "stamp out the beauty of the Almighty N", "pompous sense of pity", and then the kicker: "do not take this personally".

    My goodness, this made my day. Thank you, Jock - you speak the truth. Preach on!

    :yim_rolling_on_the_ :yim_rolling_on_the_:yim_rolling_on_the_ :yim_rolling_on_the_



    EDIT: Oh wait, I just saw the scarecrow in the above post. Holy shit, this day is fantastic.

  5. #55
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Basically, I'm implying that Thinking is rather flat and one-dimensional
    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm so curious to take a peek inside your brain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Why? Did I say something that makes it seem that my mind works strangely?
    The linear progression would be:
    You say that thinking is flat and one dimensional, which leads me to believe that you don't like to think, or that you think in a one dimensional manner only or that you don't think at all. Earlier, I gave you two very clear examples of how I process information. Now, I would like to see the way you process information. The statement you made is curious at best.

    Can you give us an example?

  6. #56
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph-One View Post
    What discussion? What could it possibly mean to say that "thinking is one-dimensional" or "thinking is linear". It's nonsense, and is only metaphorical at best (I could generously interpret it as saying "thinking is limited", but I'm not in the business of constructing banalities). I can't even argue against it because it doesn't say anything at all.
    Yeah, I interpreted it as meaning "thinking is sequential" (which I thought could be argued against), but that's apparently not what the OP meant anyway. It's even more vague now, since "compartmentalized" seems to have taken the place of "linear."
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #57
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've actually been wondering for a while now. It seems like ST and NF make sense, but NT and SF don't.
    Precisely what do you mean by "make sense"?


    An ST uses specific, sensed details, and reasons in a linear, impersonal fashion. Basically, the calculator/bean-counter type. I can see those two going together well.

    An NF uses their imagination and instinct to get an idea of the "essence" of things, and then weighs this according to their subjective sense of value. These two also go well together.
    Still... what are you talking about?
    "go well together"
    What is that?
    we fukin won boys

  8. #58
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    First off, I take issue with the claim that T is always linear. I thought that Ti was the non-linear sort of logic, like the sort that you use on those IQ tests that ask you to fill in the missing part of the picture (the picture will have like 9 frames, but you have to analyze it as a whole to understand what piece should go in the ninth frame). You don't do that sequentially or in a linear, algebraic fashion (at least I don't). You have to first understand the whole thing to know which part is missing.
    I can see your point.

    I just want to say Te when it is mixed with Ni is not really linear as well.
    Since when you are designing a system you have to "jump" from one point to another so that you get "borders" of the system and general "appearance".

    Only then you can start connecting the dots. What is not that liner also. Since you could have overlaping or interferention so you are forced to think about many scernarios and tricks before you get it right.
    What can include a lot of jumping between past, present and future.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeah, I interpreted it as meaning "thinking is sequential" (which I thought could be argued against), but that's apparently not what the OP meant anyway. It's even more vague now, since "compartmentalized" seems to have taken the place of "linear."
    Right. And I think, in that case, that NT thought is not confined to sequential deduction. This is perhaps the reason that mathematics departments are refugee camps for NTs. In my experience theorem proving is rarely a sequential process (even though the final product is usually a very clean, logical argument). The process of starting a proof has always been, for me, a kind of synthesis where several of the needed pieces fall into place at the same time, and they aren't organized until I write them on paper.

    N and T go together. People with a marked ability for theoretical or abstract reasoning are NTs.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

  10. #60
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I've actually been wondering for a while now. It seems like ST and NF make sense, but NT and SF don't.

    An ST uses specific, sensed details, and reasons in a linear, impersonal fashion. Basically, the calculator/bean-counter type. I can see those two going together well.

    An NF uses their imagination and instinct to get an idea of the "essence" of things, and then weighs this according to their subjective sense of value. These two also go well together.
    i have wondered the exact same thing since the system made sense to me.

    from my 10+ years of experience with my INTP friend, it seems more that his ability to dissect things logically is abused rather than obeyed by his less specific general feelings about something, although they are often still driven by reason

    to say intuition is always logical suggests that our ability to identify rigid systems of logic is never clouded by the fact that intuition is still a "feeling" of whether something fits a pattern or it does not without delving into the details. it is to say, you can add up a large quantity of numbers perfectly without concerning yourself with every decimal. convenient for confidence' sake, but untrue... whenever you convert from specific to less specific, general efficiency is gained, accuracy is lost (it's a balance that is observed by computer storage compression algorithms)

    to put it in mbti-speak, intuition is not tied to logic, it is tied to a chemical/emotional response to logical patterns and theories. logic is inflexible, so if it were tied to anything it would be raw sensory perception, as inaccurate as those can be. an "NT" would be someone who has a positive ratio of thoughts based on feelings that draw from logical observations(if if, then then then then then?), an ST would be someone who has a ratio in favor of logical observations followed by the patterns that can be deducted from them (if if if if if if, then then), an NF, positive ratio of feelings about patterns of emotion (same as NT, for emotional rather than rational issues), SF, emotional observations followed by the principles that can be deducted from them (same as ST with the same difference)

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