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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I think there's something stupid about people who blindly assume that logic is the only form of intelligence by which one can be measured.
    I think Blank was just goofing around after all the talk about the supposedly natural pairing of N and F. It gets a tad tiresome to those of us who are innately NT and have never been any other way.

  2. #122
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    What is described in Susan Polgar's thought processes is a deeply internalized understanding of every possible pattern, move, and relationship within the game of chess. In this way her mind is filled with these linear, logical associations. Because it is deeply internalized, she can access the information in a non-linear way. She makes her moves based on her gut which has been thoroughly trained by logic.

    I think MBTI has the T function as the decision making function and the N function as the information gathering function. What is described in the Polgar example seems like the opposite process. The logical connections are the data and the intuition is the method for retrieving the data. Instead of viewing her internal data as isolated facts, it is smaller linear connections between facts.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #123
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's pretty obvious I was just joking. If you guys took the whole N is a planet metaphor seriously...

    :dizzy:
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Well, logic and intelligence are usually used interchangeably. It's not hard to imagine that some people think they're the same thing.

    I say let them have the word "intelligence." We still have other words that can measure us in other ways. Stupid shouldn't be such an insult if a person has other positive qualities. It just tends to be, for some reason.
    But many NFs are far from stupid. I know one who is a doctor. She usually tests borderline between INFJ and INFP.

    Yes, I suppose they can have that word if it makes them feel better. I just don't see the need to put others down. I guess it goes both ways, though, with NFs calling NTs robots and such!

  5. #125
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Yeah, it's pretty obvious I was just joking. If you guys took the whole N is a planet metaphor seriously...

    :dizzy:
    I dunno about you, but I definitely have my own personal planet which I regularly conduct genocide on.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    What is described in Susan Polgar's thought processes is a deeply internalized understanding of every possible pattern, move, and relationship within the game of chess. In this way her mind is filled with these linear, logical associations. Because it is deeply internalized, she can access the information in a non-linear way. She makes her moves based on her gut which has been thoroughly trained by logic.

    I think MBTI has the T function as the decision making function and the N function as the information gathering function. What is described in the Polgar example seems like the opposite process. The logical connections are the data and the intuition is the method for retrieving the data. Instead of viewing her internal data as isolated facts, it is smaller linear connections between facts.
    I think that's a really good description of how things work for NTs (or at least this one). I just posted about my preoccupation with systems and the relationships between/in them earlier. The thinking is much like what you're describing. The N seems to push the T from connection to connection.

  7. #127
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Yeah, it's pretty obvious I was just joking. If you guys took the whole N is a planet metaphor seriously...

    :dizzy:
    I didn't, actually. I only responded because Costrin pointed out an obvious implication of destroying stupid people, and you complained that the stupid people were onto you. I figured it was worth pointing out that stupid people would have been able to figure it out anyway, because it really wasn't complicated.

  8. #128
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    But many NFs are far from stupid. I know one who is a doctor. She usually tests borderline between INFJ and INFP.

    Yes, I suppose they can have that word if it makes them feel better. I just don't see the need to put others down. I guess it goes both ways, though, with NFs calling NTs robots and such!
    True, many NFs are far from stupid. For that matter, so are many SPs and SJs (though I'm loathe to admit it).

    The things NTs claim are the better of the purely intellectual/academic theoretical stuff like strategies and conceptualizations that might or might not relate to reality well. That's what NT intelligence is good for, it's actually less than optimal for many other situations.

    So I have no qualms about giving them "intelligence."

  9. #129
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    The core of "the problem" is that we use N in a different way then you.

    You use to figure emotional needs of yourself or other people.

    We use it to figure out the basic principles of reality we are living in.


    What means that we use N differently then you. But since it looks that there are more NFs out there, it is normal that N is asocialted with F more by a social standard.
    Especially since the world is full of sensors which have a quite blured idea about the entire thing.

    I made a lot of generalization but that was needed to get my point across.

  10. #130
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The core of "the problem" is that we use N in a different way then you.

    You use to figure emotional needs of yourself or other people.

    We use it to figure out the basic principles of reality we are living in.


    What means that we use N differently then you. But since it looks that there is more NFs out there, it is normal that N is asocialted with F more by a social standard.
    Especially since the world is full of sensors which have a quite blured idea about the entire thing.

    I made a lot of generalization but that was needed to get my point across.
    That seems plausible from a certain perspective, but what's interesting is that your reasoning is based on your perceived preconceptions of groups of people, rather than the nature of N, T, F, and the way they interact on a theoretical level.

    Also, you specifically referred to "me," rather than my argument. You've given a good reason why I personally should be discredited (I'm an NF and biased towards NFs, don't understand how NTs use T, and due to being an F, would be more susceptible to social standards created by Sensors).

    You've soundly defeated my argument from an Ethos perspective. Being an F, I'll respect that, of course. You win.

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