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  1. #91
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    This series of posts? They're interesting to watch. Marmalade's post is probably the most reasonable one so far...and it probably goes a long way in explaining my own life choices.

    What are your thoughts on it?
    i wasn't making myself clear i think. in those situations where your F gives you apprehension, doubt etc., what does your T do?
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  2. #92
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Although you may agree with Western philosophy, you didn't create it.
    Actually, I did create something like it in my own mind independently. But it turned out later the ideas had already been expressed by someone else, so it didn't mean anything to anyone when I expressed them. Sigh.

    I'm not going to generalize, but I would be willing to bet that many people who actually "do" Philosophy professionally are NTs because it requires the ability for subjective analysis and insight that some NFs also have, but I think that NT would be more prone to stick with logic even when his or her values were challenged. Logical thinking is absolutely imperitive to actually "doing" most Western Philosophy. Again, I don't want to generalize, because not all Western Philsophy is even the same (for example, I think that Kant was much more rational than Nietszche).
    My impression was that philosophy was about "why" (N) rather than "how" (T). I suppose there might be some more method-oriented philosophies that appeal to a T specifically.

    NTs are already better than us at math, strategy, science, and logic. I just thought we would at least be on equal footing in philosophy. If you say they're better at it, though... I guess it seems likely considering that they're good at everything else.

  3. #93
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I don't see how one can say that "T" does not make sense with "N" by using the argument that "limits (as in logic, in this case) restrain creativity".

    No, it does not at all. In fact, limits foster creativity, forcing you to be clever to play with them, surpass them, and use them to your advantage. N is T's devil's advocate. They have a lot of fun together, and actually go together quite well.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #94
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    I think they're better at it professionally - that means by academia standards. That doesn't mean that I think that they're necessarily better or right. It requires NTs to hold up those academic standards that are prevalent in Western Society. Logic plays a very strong role in professional, academic philsophy - hence I say NTs are better at it.

    The mistake I think that some people make is that they equivocate being more logical with being smarter. Logic isn't everything, it's just one type of thinking. It's absolutely necessary, but other types of thinking are necessary too.

    From what I understand NFs are supposed to be better at things like creative writing, counseling, comparative literature, and politics. If our minds work well for politics than we must have some strengths in philosophy. Again - I don't like to generalize.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    i wasn't making myself clear i think. in those situations where your F gives you apprehension, doubt etc., what does your T do?
    Gotcha...Generally T just stomps the shit out F when this happens. I, quite literally, will either logically (say with a reductio or direct proof) try to figure things out how by writing out the premises and conclusions of an argument. If that doesn't work I look for someone more knowledgeable to help me work through the spots where I'm stuck. The latter is nothing but old school dialogue, or the Socratic method. If there's no one around, I refer to the literature and review the arguments about whatever it is I'm having trouble with. Whatever the route I choose, when I'm trying to work through something...anything for that matter... F gets locked in the closet until I'm satisfied that I've gone as far as I can go.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, I did create something like it in my own mind independently. But it turned out later the ideas had already been expressed by someone else, so it didn't mean anything to anyone when I expressed them. Sigh.



    My impression was that philosophy was about "why" (N) rather than "how" (T). I suppose there might be some more method-oriented philosophies that appeal to a T specifically.

    NTs are already better than us at math, strategy, science, and logic. I just thought we would at least be on equal footing in philosophy. If you say they're better at it, though... I guess it seems likely considering that they're good at everything else.
    Philosophy as it is practiced in the West is as much about the how as it is the why. Every one of the subjects you listed began and ends with philosophy. There is no math or science or logic without it.

  7. #97
    . Blank's Avatar
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    I started most of my life-philosophizing when I was about ten and through time drew many consistent/parallel conclusions with leading philosophers of different backgrounds without ever having read their materials.

    I'm actually a member of my college's philosophy club and at first I was intimidated because I thought my peers would be so much more well-read or apt at philosophy than I am, however, due to the nature of philosophy and my ability to think on my feet regarding the subject, I am rarely shocked or unable to debate what I see as the most rational or progressive view on any given subject.

    This being said, I will agree that NT's are able to sort of "conjure" up different philosophical ideas, however, I will attest that other members can state things so thought-provokingly and... wise? Down to earth? Oh well, I can't articulate it properly. Anyway, anyone can philosophize, it doesn't really matter what type you're more preferable to sorting information with. I, in fact, rather enjoy having discussions with intelligent intuitive and sensing feelers because they can bring the spiritual down to earth. It's really refreshing. Kudos to you guys.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
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    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  8. #98
    Senior Member norepinephrine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    This being said, I will agree that NT's are able to sort of "conjure" up different philosophical ideas, however, I will attest that other members can state things so thought-provokingly and... wise? Down to earth? Oh well, I can't articulate it properly. Anyway, anyone can philosophize, it doesn't really matter what type you're more preferable to sorting information with. I, in fact, rather enjoy having discussions with intelligent intuitive and sensing feelers because they can bring the spiritual down to earth. It's really refreshing. Kudos to you guys.
    An apt description of how I often feel reading posts. Somewhere between "Why didn't I see it that way before" and "Wow, that was succinct".
    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    It's not a zero sum game. You're still a dork.

  9. #99
    Senior Member norepinephrine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    Gotcha...Generally T just stomps the shit out F when this happens. I, quite literally, will either logically (say with a reductio or direct proof) try to figure things out how by writing out the premises and conclusions of an argument. If that doesn't work I look for someone more knowledgeable to help me work through the spots where I'm stuck. The latter is nothing but old school dialogue, or the Socratic method. If there's no one around, I refer to the literature and review the arguments about whatever it is I'm having trouble with. Whatever the route I choose, when I'm trying to work through something...anything for that matter... F gets locked in the closet until I'm satisfied that I've gone as far as I can go.
    My T has resorted to creating pie charts to illustrate specific aspects of interpersonal relationships. No - I didn't actually share them with anyone. Yes, I did feel like an idiot while doing it.

    But it helped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    It's not a zero sum game. You're still a dork.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by norepinephrine View Post
    My T has resorted to creating pie charts to illustrate specific aspects of interpersonal relationships. No - I didn't actually share them with anyone. Yes, I did feel like an idiot while doing it.

    But it helped.
    You do that too?? LOL! I also love truth trees. My whole world can be broken into a series of little binary relations. Of course people would be appalled at the extent to which I use them, so they generally end up balled up in the trash or in a shredder, but oh how happy they make me (I don't even care that it's probably evidence that I'm an even bigger emotional retard than most people would have imagined).

    So yeah, N and T is definitely a good pairing.

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