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  1. #41
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    NT: notoriously tasty
    ST: sensible tomato

  2. #42
    Lasting_Pain
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    Did you just turn ST and NT into acronyms?

  3. #43
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    what do you want me to say?

  4. #44
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    what do you want me to say?

  5. #45
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    you asked for it

  6. #46
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    Take a math class, and look at how people show their work. If the work is incoherent and and scattered but always comes to the right answer than the person is an NT. If the work is formal and uses the same steps to solve each problem then that person is an ST. Other functions can play a part in this. But this experiment works atleast 90% of time.
    But then even NTs learn that this approach is not truly valued. Teachers thought I was a genius when, in primary school, I could tell the result of long expressions without doing any written caculations. In high school, however, they thought I was cheating

    no real way of them knowing whether you're just cheating, memorizing answers to certain procedures, etc.
    But to me that was just insulting. Maybe I was just idiotically stubborn, but I saw no reason why a teacher would think I was cheating if he-she did not catch me during the act. Well, anyway, now that I'm in college I started doing everything more step-by-step in the advanced classes since it was much harder not to miss important details with mental elaboration.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    abstract/NT: crack the code, then extract a general principle for how the code was cracked, so that methods can be created to crack future codes.

    concrete/ST: use methods and experience to crack codes and circumvent problems using common sense? use specific occurrences rather than abstract principles to solve problems?
    Generally speaking, I agree with this assessment. Though I think your description of NT/abstract thinkers is spot on, while the questions of ST/concrete thinkers requires some thought. Let me see if I can formulate it quickly.

    In order to establish how different people think, it is necessary to establish how knowledge is obtained. There are two prevalent theories of epistemology: rationalism (based largely on rational calculation and logical syllogisms) and empirism (based primarily on empirical observation, experimentation, knowledge gained through the senses, and so forth). Most people use a mixture of both, but some may have a distinct preference for one or the other. It seems to me that the NT is more disposed to rational thinking while the ST is more disposed to empirical thinking.

    In effect, the NT may come across as an arm chair philosopher who speculates, connecting bits and scraps of knowledge that fit together like a jigsaw puzzle according to their principles. In such a highly abstruse web of subtile reasonings and links between principles, one mistake is the necessary parent of another, and can lead to conclusions that are absurd and/or inconsistent with common sense at times. On the other hand, the ST is typically more grounded in the concrete world. In this view, the mind from birth is like a blank canvus, and experiences are painted on it. As one gains experience a picture is created. The picture is knowlege. How the colors of the picture are inter-related will help shape the person's worldview. In short, when the ST confronts a problem their main tool is common sense, empirical observations, and history.

    For the ST, history and common sense can provide them with an empirical map that they can utilize when solving problems and making decisions. Of course intuition, history, syllogisms, and so on are important for the NT in rationalizing why things are the way they are. Moreover, for the NT a more holisitic approach is critical for a solid understanding, whereas for the ST, they need not understand the whole in order to begin working on a problem or to make a decision. The difference in thinking preference is epitomized in certain working environments where a boss deligates highly specific tasks without explaining the whole of what's going on. STs will just start working like little beavers, while the NT will demand to know what the broader implications are so that they can be more efficient.

    In a nutshell, the difference between an NT and ST is comparable to two people looking at a Monet painting from different distances. The ST, standing very close, misses the bigger picture, while the NT steps back and sees the entire picture for what it is. The ST will understand the details well from being so close but miss the bigger picture, while the NT will understand the bigger picture but might overlook minute details. The NT is more disposed to the global, the ST to the local.

    Of course, we are analyzing ST and NT while holding other variables constant. I, for instance, am an NTJ. The Jness in itself acts as an empirically grounding force to my NTness. In short, for a more holistic understanding it is critical to not just understand NT-ST differences, but also how they interact with other variables.

  8. #48
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    ^ Damn, I love this guy. He makes this really clear. Good job!
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    The difference in thinking preference is epitomized in certain working environments where a boss deligates highly specific tasks without explaining the whole of what's going on. STs will just start working like little beavers, while the NT will demand to know what the broader implications are so that they can be more efficient.
    the flaw I see in this logic is that looking at something holistically will necessarily allow someone the knowledge to be make more effective decisions regarding it, it does not... it provides a wider angle of perspective, taking in no additional information, but the whole of less specific or granular information. whether this is preferable, again, depends on how hollistic or specific the inteted interaction with the subject is. the granular approach is less prone to missteps due to a lack of insight, an intuitive approach is less prone to missteps due to a lack of oversight... theoretically, if lost in a forest, a sensor could make their way easier but struggle with direction, an intuitive would know where they need to go but struggle with actually getting there, which is why it's clear a balance of both is necessary.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post

    In a nutshell, the difference between an NT and ST is comparable to two people looking at a Monet painting from different distances. The ST, standing very close, misses the bigger picture, while the NT steps back and sees the entire picture for what it is. The ST will understand the details well from being so close but miss the bigger picture, while the NT will understand the bigger picture but might overlook minute details. The NT is more disposed to the global, the ST to the local.
    You are suggesting there are only two types of people:
    Those who would stand 10 inches away from a painting, and never move.
    Those who would stand 10 feet away from a painting, and never move.
    In reality, this rarely happens.


    Our brains can work like a camera, using a particular lense which zooms in and out at will, depending on the desired perspective.
    This is why there are combination thinkers, who can easily alternate between distances when looking at a painting.

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