[NT] Which NT boss would you rather have.

[digesthisickness]

INTP boss: Lousy directions, but doesn't care to correct or discipline you.
ENTJ boss: Very explicit and interactive, can be domineering.
INTJ boss: Very thorough, can be domineering and OCD but stuffs.
ENTP boss: Fun and freewheeling, flexible, but no real guidance

just for clarification (not directed at you, but in general):

when i'm in a leadership role, i have no problem whatsoever with guidance. i'm very clear about what i want/need done, about what i expect, and if necessary (say in a group setting where each participant's work will effect another's) explaining why i want it done that way.

maybe it's just me, but when it's time to get down to business, and get things done, i don't have a problem at all taking the lead.

the 'teaching' part comes as a natural part of the role.

 

[INA]

just for clarification (not directed at you, but in general):

when i'm in a leadership role, i have no problem whatsoever with guidance. i'm very clear about what i want/need done, about what i expect, and if necessary (say in a group setting where each participant's work will effect another's) explaining why i want it done that way.

maybe it's just me, but when it's time to get down to business, and get things done, i don't have a problem at all taking the lead.

It's not just you. Hell, I've only ever had the reverse complaint . . . Probably cause I'm lazy enough to want to avoid having to review something twice or being forced to do it myself.

 

[digesthisickness]

It's not just you. Hell, I've only had the reverse complaint . . . Probably cause I'm lazy enough to want to avoid having to review something twice or being forced to do it myself.

yeah, i think deciding how well a person would teach based solely on mbti profiles is a bad idea. a position of leadership brings out a different side than what's normally shown when one is just 'cruising' through their daily life.

 

[INA]

Well, that, and also: people navigate their preferences to reach different ends in how to go about something. I hate having people come talk to me over and over. For one, the less interaction the better. Second, I *hate* repetition. I also don't like to undermine how they feel about their efforts. It's annoying as hell when people complain about what they get when they weren't so particular about what they wanted.
So even if we use mbti: dislike of repetition + aversion to excess interaction + and NP "efficient cause I'm lazy" --> clear, specific directions.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

OMG, give me an mature INTJ or ENTJ. I have NPs for bosses and while I come and go as I please and turn in work when I want they offer no guidance or direction whatsoever. That was initially cool, but it's become extremely frustrating.

I don't know anything about you or where you work. But maybe you assume that no guidance means they aren't actively participating?

Personally I usually let things free float until there is a specific taks or deliverable to be done.

 

[jenocyde]

Believe me, don't snooze on us ENTPs. My freewheeling, laid back ways are just a ruse - I prefer a friendly work environment and hence, don't like to micromanage. I hired you so I wouldn't have to do your job. If someone thinks I'm so absent minded, watch what happens when you don't live up to your end of the bargain... I'm a pit bull in a skirt, for sure.

I am very clear about what I expect and the timeline in which I expect it. In addition, I have a very open door policy, so I am always available to answer any questions. If you don't ask, I assume you know what you're doing and don't need further guidance - so I don't offer it. But if you do ask, I am more than willing to walk you through it step by step. I love teaching and explaining but I just don't want anyone to feel insulted - as if I'm questioning their abilities.

 

[proteanmix]

Guidance at work is a very individual thing. Some people see guidance as "micromanaging" and others think that if everything isn't spelled out in explicit detail with SOPs there is no guidance. When a work environment isn't functioning or is barely limping by there's a lack of leadership. In my office it just so happens that NPs are in charge.

The major barrier to this as complacency. Astoundingly enough I work with plenty of older NPs who are comfortable and have found there niche and don't want to move. They're making their six-figure or near six-figure salary, have compressed work weeks, go on vacations when they want. I can't hate on them if they've worked enough to get to a place where they don't have to work. Everything's very loose, and we're so laid back we're practically comatose. There are an incredible amount of ideas generated about what we could do and how we can do this but unless someone picks up the ideas and actually makes them happen. I don't think at this point it's a type issue; they've basically reached the point that the living is easy, the job is low stress, and they can roll projects that don't hold any appeal to them to their subordinates. There's a large age difference in my department that may be difficult to bridge and I think the older people have lost their hunger to succeed because they're reached "success."

I know that in my division everything is done at the absolute last minute and I think the quality of work suffers. Poor morale, uncertainty about what an employees role is, and reluctance to communicate openly and honestly are my markers of poor leadership. If it's any proof my division director is gradually getting departments removed from her jurisdiction and placed under other operational divisions. She's an extremely charming 50-something youthful ENFP who has a twinkle in her eyes. Personally, I like her. But none of the other division directors really take her seriously because she produces nothing. She doesn't even know how to access our local drives at work to get the work we leave for her. Everything's "we'll take care of it later!!" If it weren't for the INFP and ESFJ deputy directors feeding her information she'd know nothing. My organization has got a fair amount of N higher-ups so it's not like you can blame SJs. And I work with three ISTPs and they say the same thing, but I don't doubt it could be a J/P issue. I really think that most managers aren't trained adequately enough to be true leaders.

As a sidenote she sent me a friend request on Facebook and I don't know if I want my boss to be my friend of Facebook and I haven't answered the request. I hope she hasn't noticed!

 

[INA]

Sounds like a depressing place to work. I don't like people breathing down my neck to get something done, either (just tell me exactly what you want and gtfo), but comatose work situations cause a creeping, numbing apathy not unlike depression. Complacency will do that, especially if the complacent have fat checks to help it.
and I would NOT add a boss on facebook (wtf?), but compartmentalization's not everyone's speed.

 

[professor goodstain]

I would seek and bring to fruition an avenue to channel money from the stimulus package to our sector of the company so that we all could keep gaffing off work and maintain our income. I would also create a mini-beaurocracy to mask the money funneling under the guise of a newly labeled supentitlement. eNTP. Yes we can

In all reality, i'd prefer an ENTP. For shifty reasons.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

Guidance at work is a very individual thing. Some people see guidance as "micromanaging" and others think that if everything isn't spelled out in explicit detail with SOPs there is no guidance. When a work environment isn't functioning or is barely limping by there's a lack of leadership. In my office it just so happens that NPs are in charge.

The major barrier to this as complacency. Astoundingly enough I work with plenty of older NPs who are comfortable and have found there niche and don't want to move. They're making their six-figure or near six-figure salary, have compressed work weeks, go on vacations when they want. I can't hate on them if they've worked enough to get to a place where they don't have to work. Everything's very loose, and we're so laid back we're practically comatose. There are an incredible amount of ideas generated about what we could do and how we can do this but unless someone picks up the ideas and actually makes them happen. I don't think at this point it's a type issue; they've basically reached the point that the living is easy, the job is low stress, and they can roll projects that don't hold any appeal to them to their subordinates. There's a large age difference in my department that may be difficult to bridge and I think the older people have lost their hunger to succeed because they're reached "success."

I know that in my division everything is done at the absolute last minute and I think the quality of work suffers. Poor morale, uncertainty about what an employees role is, and reluctance to communicate openly and honestly are my markers of poor leadership. If it's any proof my division director is gradually getting departments removed from her jurisdiction and placed under other operational divisions. She's an extremely charming 50-something youthful ENFP who has a twinkle in her eyes. Personally, I like her. But none of the other division directors really take her seriously because she produces nothing. She doesn't even know how to access our local drives at work to get the work we leave for her. Everything's "we'll take care of it later!!" If it weren't for the INFP and ESFJ deputy directors feeding her information she'd know nothing. My organization has got a fair amount of N higher-ups so it's not like you can blame SJs. And I work with three ISTPs and they say the same thing, but I don't doubt it could be a J/P issue. I really think that most managers aren't trained adequately enough to be true leaders.

As a sidenote she sent me a friend request on Facebook and I don't know if I want my boss to be my friend of Facebook and I haven't answered the request. I hope she hasn't noticed!

Its easy to criticize the ENFP for not knowing tech shit. But most Execs aren't very tech savy. Honestly, you probably don't know what her workload is or what is on her plate.

Reminds me of when people criticize execs for making millions of dollars per year while their employees only make $20K/year. The execs are being compensated for being on-call 24/7 and growing a ulcer from all the stress.

 

[proteanmix]

Sounds like a depressing place to work. I don't like people breathing down my neck to get something done, either (just tell me exactly what you want and gtfo), but comatose work situations cause a creeping, numbing apathy not unlike depression. Complacency will do that, especially if the complacent have fat checks to help it.
and I would NOT add a boss on facebook (wtf?), but compartmentalization's not everyone's speed.

That's what it is. Nobody really cares and you don't have to care if you don't want to. No one is saying this is important, this needs to be done, this is crucial. I'm not talking about having a dragon breathing down your neck, and this is probably my J talking but there is no sense of prioritization. From my perception it feels stagnant to those who are ambitious and just right to those who are satisfied and content with how things are.

It's not that bad, though. It's one of those jobs you could easily look up in 10 years and be like how the eff did this happen?!?

Its easy to criticize the ENFP for not knowing tech shit. But most Execs aren't very tech savy. Honestly, you probably don't know what her workload is or what is on her plate.

Reminds me of when people criticize execs for making millions of dollars per year while their employees only make $20K/year. The execs are being compensated for being on-call 24/7 and growing a ulcer from all the stress.

Uh, not knowing how to open your microsoft outlook is hardly what I would deem tech shit.

 

[INA]

That's what it is. Nobody really cares and you don't have to care if you don't want to. No one is saying this is important, this needs to be done, this is crucial. I'm not talking about having a dragon breathing down your neck, and this is probably my J talking but there is no sense of prioritization. From my perception it feels stagnant to those who are ambitious and just right to those who are satisfied and content with how things are.

Is this a government job?
By breathing down your back, I meant micromanaging. I dislike it so I don't do it. But, yeah, I need to know what I'm doing needs to be done and that it matters if and how well I do my job. Otherwise it's sort of demoralizing.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

Uh, not knowing how to open your microsoft outlook is hardly what I would deem tech shit.

True but my point was that just because someone is incompetent in one aspect, basic computer operation, doesn't mean they don't produce anything of value.

 

[Synarch]

I want to have an ENTP boss. Myself.

 

[proteanmix]

True but my point was that just because someone is incompetent in one aspect, basic computer operation, doesn't mean they don't produce anything of value.

Yeah, I agree. She produces many things of value. But some imcompentancies are more debilitating than others, especially when you're in a leadership position.

 

[Cenomite]

Tough pick between ENTP and ENTJ.

I went with ENTP, but I'm not sure that I'd trust an ENTP to run things smoothly. An ENTJ would get stuff done, and still be open minded enough to not piss me off.

 

[jenocyde]

Tough pick between ENTP and ENTJ.

I went with ENTP, but I'm not sure that I'd trust an ENTP to run things smoothly. An ENTJ would get stuff done, and still be open minded enough to not piss me off.

I love ENTJs with a passion in many ways, but could never ever work under one... Just the constant devaluing of other people's opinions would drive me insane - to me that's their biggest flaw. This compulsive need to be right or to appear to be the only one who knows what they are doing...

 

[digesthisickness]

I love ENTJs with a passion in many ways, but could never ever work under one... Just the constant devaluing of other people's opinions would drive me insane - to me that's their biggest flaw. This compulsive need to be right or to appear to be the only one who knows what they are doing...

i agree. that type of conduct isn't conducive to, and actually works completely against, what should really be the objective.

one has to be able to put the big picture before ego in order to be effective.

 

[Fluffywolf]

INTP's are doing better than I expected in this poll

(based on the overall opinion about INTP's on this forum. I know it works for me as I have plenty of happy employers. )

 

[substitute]

ENTJ's are peculiar... that devaluing, scary, pushy thing they do, they only do it to people who let them. But they're very quick to learn boundaries and tend to respect them pretty much. If you establish yours and make them clear from the word Go, seems to me there're few problems. You've gotta be accommodating, but draw a clear line in front of them that says "here, and no farther", and don't ever let them push past it, then they respect you.