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  1. #41
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Assuming we are talking about MBTI, I'd use the five sub categories in Step II:

    Empathetic
    Compassionate
    Accommodating
    Accepting
    Tender

    --

    Otherwise, I'd probably use some combination of a person's physiological response to an event. This tends to include the normal definition of feeling (ie: you "feel" something is wrong tends to involve physiological changes).

    The key thing here is that F, as in MBTI F, does not measure the 2nd definition well, if at all.
    What's the difference though, between feeling and emotion?

  2. #42
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    [B]Whereas I believe that there is no such think as a feeling-based or thinking based situation.Every situation is of the same making, feelers just make it feeling-based, thinkers make it thinking based.
    I agree. I'm not saying that a situation is feeling-based, but, that it has a potential to be feeling-based, i.e., how it is processed, can be through feeling rather than thinking. The person determines one or the other. And, as I outlined, in extremes/to clearly outline the dichotomy we speak of: A thinker would be ignorant (not really know) to the potential for the situation to be processed through feeling, just as a feeler would be ignorant (not really know) to the potential for the situation to be processed through thinking.

    I did say pretty clearly we do not ignore the feeling aspect. We just deal differently with it. (Although maybe I should say I, instead of we, here.)
    And, my point is simply one of logic:

    Either process through A or B.
    Given that, if A, then, not B.
    Thus, A, then not B.

    And that is why I perceived your opinion of me to be ignorant to such situations. Which is exactly what ignorant makes. I highly disagree wit your stance towards what T is. And just find it unfortunate you have such a low value of it.

    :|
    Again, please refrain from giving value-based assignments to my thoughts. You cannot know what I think/feel of thinking preference or its value (or lack thereof)...as you can only glean from this discussion is how I think a person in a situation utilizes thinking (or feeling), and the commentary then it makes on the other. Nothing of what I personally think of these functions.

  3. #43
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    What's the difference though, between feeling and emotion?
    Within MBTI or in general? In MBTI, it is entirely different. Emotion, as it would be clinically defined, is not represented in MBTI - or rather, a component of it is expressed in E/I. Nothing about F or T makes a person reactive or emotional (with the exception of decision of the decision making process - namely the degree of detachment... but correlation studies show no emotional reactivity correlation of note... so it is using a specific definition of feeling)

    The difference in definition outside of MBTI isn't very big, although in common usage, feeling does not have to be a physical state - it means that "I feel that...", as in expressing a belief or subjective opinion (which is how it is used in MBTI)... but it also means "I'm feeling angry", which is emotional. So outside of MBTI, I would accept it meaning emotion, while MBTI uses one particular definition.

  4. #44
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Again, please refrain from giving value-based assignments to my thoughts. You cannot know what I think/feel of thinking preference or its value (or lack thereof)...as you can only glean from this discussion is how I think a person in a situation utilizes thinking (or feeling), and the commentary then it makes on the other. Nothing of what I personally think of these functions.
    Well, forgive me for being blunt then. I was merely under the impression we share our own opinions on this forum, and assumed you put forth yours. Either way, I won't hold a grudge or anything. I'm just eager to put forth my opinion and to try and understand other peoples opinion. And I'm having a pretty hard time trying to understand yours. But well, if it isn't your opinion then all is clear. Although the point of that is still elluding me. :P

    Generalising is an annoying concept, and at times so are written posts on a forum. (For a NeTi)
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #45
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Emotion, as it would be clinically defined, is not represented in MBTI - or rather, a component of it is expressed in E/I.
    Sorry to be so redundant, but, I just want some clarification before I make a commentary. What is the 'clinical definition' of emotion?

    The difference in definition outside of MBTI isn't very big, although in common usage, feeling does not have to be a physical state.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Well, forgive me for being blunt then. I was merely under the impression we share our own opinions on this forum, and assumed you put forth yours. Either way, I won't hold a grudge or anything. I'm just eager to put forth my opinion and to try and understand other peoples opinion. And I'm having a pretty hard time trying to understand yours. But well, if it isn't your opinion then all is clear. Although the point of that is still elluding me. :P

    Generalising is an annoying concept, and at times so are written posts on a forum.

    I don't see any bluntness in you by the way, just a lot of taking-it-personally. I'm here to discuss ideas, not me in particular (except in threads where it's quite clear I'm speaking anecdotally).

    This is mind-boggling to me: why would you need to clarify, in the first place, that you don't hold a grudge?

    (For a NeTi)
    Personally: nope.

  7. #47
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    This is mind-boggling to me: why would you need to clarify that you don't hold a grudge?
    To be sure your intentions are not ill-conceived and clear. As you may well know, we aren't debating face to face and have but written text for us to analyse with what sort of intention and determination a person has written.

    For me that's a NeTi hell at times, I read a post and I see about 10 different ways to conceive a person's intentions (Most specifically debates and serious posts. Unlike the posts that aren't oblivious to intention such as jokes and sarcasm.). And as such, clarification is sometimes very helpful in achieving mutual understanding.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  8. #48
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Sorry to be so redundant, but, I just want some clarification before I make a commentary. What is the 'clinical definition' of emotion?
    I don't know that a comprehensive one has been defined, least right down to the particulars. The generally accepted part of the definition that I am referring to is the physiological change (the subjects reactivity to an event).

    (This part differs from the 'rational decision making process' definition of F that is used in MBTI/Jung.)

    I'm not really arguing it because I know that if we dig deep far enough, we'll reach the "all thought is physiological", and so forth. The only thing that really matters, to me, is that F doesn't get associated to the reactive definition of emotion (and that Ts are less reactive) as it isn't true. No matter how we define the words, that remains true.

  9. #49
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    To be sure your intentions are not ill-conceived and clear. As you may well know, we aren't debating face to face and have but written text for us to analyse with what sort of intention and determination a person has written.

    For me that's a NeTi hell at times, I read a post and I see about 10 different ways to conceive a person's intentions (Most specifically debates and serious posts. Unlike the posts that aren't oblivious to intention such as jokes and sarcasm.). And as such, clarification is sometimes very helpful in achieving mutual understanding.
    Ne+Ti would be ENTP, not INTP (Ti+Ne). Just pointing that out.

    And you don't really seem much like an NTP in the way you process things to me, anyway. It would seem from your responses that your personal feelings/reactions to things are obviously much stronger than mine. I'd actually think you were an ENFP or something at first glance. But then I don't know you well enough to comment.

  10. #50
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'd actually think you were an ENFP or something. But then I don't know you well enough to comment.
    I'm an INTP with baggage. But trust me, INTP nonetheless.

    (I switch between Ne+Ti and Ti+Ne a bit by the way. Around close friends and on the internet, I'm quite possibly ENTP instead of INTP in many ways. But I still remain INTP by nature nonetheless. As I am not always capable of maintaining Ne+Ti.)
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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