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  1. #21
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    How can you consider your feelings if you then process it through thinking?

    To consider a feeling, one must consider the 'felt' aspect as THE key to feeling, wouldn't one? So, bringing that to the realm of thinking, negates the felt.

    (again, as we talk of extremes)
    Thinking and feeling are not two ends of a spectrum, never have been. A thinker will think on how they feel and so will a feeler. Don't mistake the different techniques as anything but that, different techniques.

    As for the whole feeling the feeling, have you witnessed the unbridled feeling of an NT esp an NTP? It's not always a good thing to draw it out. Doing that almost finished my relationship as I had an ENFP keep asking me how I felt about my now wife and kept disregarding everything I said as thinking. That's the thing, I express through thought. If I care then I'm thinking about you and not sitting there experiencing emotions all the time. The emotion follows the thought not the other way around.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Feeler feels pain, openly expresses that pain, probably immidiatly start cussing or blaming the friend for their inadequacy. Are visibly annoyed. Meanwhile just letting the emotions run. If their really in a bad mood they'll probably call that friend with some kind of silly ultimatum of sorts. And afterwards probably regret their actions as they start processing the situation.

    Thinker feels the same pain, but almost immidiatly starts to rationalize the situation. Why was I stood up? How can I prevent it in the future? Should I remain friends or just not bother? Should I give the benefit of the doubt, or shouldn't I? They're not openly expressing their pain because they're immidiatly starting to process the situation.
    The more you rationalize, the more you're trying to move away from the pain. You are moving away from the felt. You are dealing with the situation that brought about the pain (through rationalization), than you are dealing with the pain itself (anger, crying, talking about how it makes them feel, etc, the outlet).

    I.e.,
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    To consider a feeling, one must consider the 'felt' aspect as THE key to feeling, wouldn't one? So, bringing that to the realm of thinking, negates the felt.

    The advantage to the above scenario for feelers is that, situations will very likely change, but, embracing the felt/the feelings of self (doesn't have that much changeability), gives you better insight of the depth of such emotions, and with such knowledge, comes greater control for the feelers, rather than thinkers (who ignore through rationalization....as you example so succintly pointed out). Hence, they'll be put in the same 'pain'...just with a new situation, again and again...because they have yet to understand the pain itself, rather than the specific cause for the pain at any given (changing) situation.

  3. #23
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Well, I'm sorry, but crying has never fixed a problem in human history. :P Sorry, you believe I'm ignorant.

    I'll leave it at saying that thinkers and feelers just act differently, have different standards of what is important. And personally I'm glad I am a thinker. I probably would have killed myself had I been a feeler by now, what would be the point in that. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #24
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Maybe I'm just a very odd T.
    Nope, just another snowflake I'm afraid.
    Like I said, I don't think expressing emotions has ANYTHING to do with having emotions.
    QFT however it DOES have something to do with communicating them for obvious reasons. It doesn't matter one monkey's left nut what's inside your head to another person. You have to manifest what is inside to connect.
    As for showing my emotions, if someone at work is being particularly stupid and unwilling to listen I get very agitated and angry. Not because I want to be angry, but because I think that that's the only remaining thing that might make the lights in their dull brains turn on.
    Don't you think that will naturally lead people to think you're basically snippy but otherwise cold?
    Same for all emotions, when I think there is a need to show emotions, I will. But I won't if I don't think it's neccesary or required. I still have very strong emotions nonetheless.
    But your emotions are bound to your principles. That is very T. I concur and do likewise. However this again has nothing to do with how others will define us.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #25
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Well, I'm sorry, but crying has never fixed a problem in human history. :P Sorry, you believe I'm ignorant.
    Me thinks your definitions are faulty. Crying never solved anything but then again neither did an idea. An idea never invented anything and caring never made anyone feel cared for. It's all in the communication and the action resulting from it, more the latter to be precise.

    Crying can convey as much as a well written paragraph.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Thinking and feeling are not two ends of a spectrum, never have been. A thinker will think on how they feel and so will a feeler. Don't mistake the different techniques as anything but that, different techniques.
    In order to cleanly illustrate the point, yes, they are two ends of the spectrum...or if we stick to what we're discussing, the dichotomy T versus F. I thought that was obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    (again, as we talk of extremes)
    As for the whole feeling the feeling, have you witnessed the unbridled feeling of an NT esp an NTP? It's not always a good thing to draw it out. Doing that almost finished my relationship as I had an ENFP keep asking me how I felt about my now wife and kept disregarding everything I said as thinking. That's the thing, I express through thought. If I care then I'm thinking about you and not sitting there experiencing emotions all the time.

    Exactly, and this happens because they are unaccustomed to the meta-cognition of feeling the feeling such that when an extreme evokes it to such a degree, they cannot control feelings like a feeler could.

    The emotion follows the thought not the other way around.
    I think when you refer to the previous example of the 'unbridled feeling of NTP, it's very much a case of the opposite, where thoughts try to scamble to catch up with emotions, but, don't know how.....exactly BECAUSE for thinkers, emotions follow thought, so when a trigger makes emotion overwhelm a thought...it's like fish outta water.

  7. #27
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Don't you think that will naturally lead people to think you're basically snippy but otherwise cold?
    Totally, but that is precisely my aim.
    But your emotions are bound to your principles. That is very T. I concur and do likewise. However this again has nothing to do with how others will define us.
    I'm just a bit annoyed by being called ignorant, but have come to the conclusion there is no compromise to this situation.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  8. #28
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    In order to cleanly illustrate the point, yes, they are two ends of the spectrum...or if we stick to what we're discussing, the dichotomy T versus F. I thought that was obvious?
    Sorry to be harsh but I'm trying for clarity here...

    You're either wrong because you think that F is feeling as in feeling emotion or you're wrong because you're thinking that an attempt at classification is the reality. A implies B does not imply that B implies A.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #29
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Totally, but that is precisely my aim.


    I'm just a bit annoyed by being called ignorant, but have come to the conclusion there is no compromise to this situation.
    Yes there is actually, soften up a little. The rest follows like water.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #30
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Hey, I totally respect the feelers way of life, whatever works for them.

    I only expect the same in return. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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