Where do you draw the line between someone disagreeing with your opinion on their choices and when someone is actually slamming you for being wrong for the way you think (or feel)?
Then once you've decided they intended to attack your personal values in a debate, how do you decide their continued responses are a true vendetta on your way of life instead of them defending against your charges that they've felt, said or done things in a way that they are trying to explain they haven't?
Heart, I'm going to give you an insight into my crazy mind. Maybe others will identify with it, but few will admit it: there is discourse and there is personal attack - the line is pretty severe in my mind. And when I feel attacked, my first response is to strike back. Offense, not defense. So maybe that's where you see emotion. But the truth is, it's all a game to me. 99% of the time, there is nothing you can say or do that will send me into an emotional breakdown. I may get
loud if someone is talking over me or pick stronger words for effect, but that is not to be confused with anger. Once the attacks start, it truly becomes a game to see how far I can take it (maybe the oneupmanship that my type is labeled with?) But I don't feel upset, I feel powerful.
You have to remember, I rarely form opinions, but when I do, they are well researched and substantiated so your argument better be pretty air tight. If you are willing to listen, I am willing to speak. But if you are set in your ways with no sources, just a feeling, I don't want to discuss anything with you and will try to back out of the argument.
Now that I am getting older, I have learned to cut the crap and speak politely to everyone, no matter how tempted I am to slice them to shreds for what I perceive to be ignorance. When I feel that familiar coldness, I fire a warning shot or two, giving the other person a chance to end this gracefully. This is usually a comment like "ok, let's agree to disagree" or "you do it your way and I'll do it mine, no worries". I do this because I realize that the conversation will never come to a conclusion. We are just repeating the same things over and over and no one is listening to the other. At this point, I'm tired (not angry, not upset). Just tired. And now, because I want this to end, I will go for the jugular - just to get this pest away from me. So I feel that if I concede the point multiple times, offer to back away and say "ok, you've made your point" but you still continue - that's when I feel that it is now your personal vendetta against me, not the argument, and that's when the gloves are off. Some may have a lower tolerance for that nonsense than I do, so maybe that's why you feel it some more than others. But believe me, we are all human and have feelings. Why should I respect yours if you don't respect mine? Especially since mine are so few and far between...
If someone still pursues the point after this, then I will either give them another chance to back away (usually, on forums, I will send a pm saying that we should both just cool it, no hard feelings). If it still continues, then you will truly know what it looks like when I am upset.
The only time I truly become upset (that 1%), is not when someone attacks me, but when someone attacks my sisters (loved ones). Then you will see emotions fly, for sure. But I still will keep a clear enough head to coldly and angrily dissect you.
^^^ That is how i was trying to word it. I was slightly going round the issue, so not to offend?
I have my views, but i am open to new ideas. lol. I am all up for a good debate, i try not to add feelings as then i get to passionate and i just get angry. I do feel however and this is why i tread carefully with yourselves as i worry that anything i say (and i am aware you lot are more knowledgeable than myself) can be turned and twisted to your understanding then it seems like you are deliberately provoking me. Does that make sense???
I am getting a little more daring on here. Quite proud of myself.
Just the simple fact that you were afraid to post here illustrates my point. You really don't understand that there is no offense in asking a genuine question...
My body language is pretty consistent and when debating or discoursing, it's better to just ask me if I'm offended, rather than guess. Actually, don't even bother - I'll most likely tell you straight out anyway before you get the chance. I always think it's better to address things right away
before any tempers flare. Most times, I'll say "dude, that was a low blow" in which case you should apologize and then we move on and all is forgotten. And it works both ways. If I say something messed up, just bring it to my attention. I would never be upset if someone told me I went too far. I would probably feel really bad for not noticing and apologize profusely. But sadly, I am not always given that chance. People perceive slights from me that were never intended because I speak strongly and I think out loud.
I recently, very unfortunately, ended a profitable relationship with a business partner because she was too damn emotional. I love her to death, but working with her was a nightmare. I was never allowed to say anything, for fear it was a personal attack. The minute she read anything remotely negative by email, she would flip out and come to all sorts of conclusions about what I was trying to say. Well, I never
try to say anything - I just say it. She imagined the worst case scenario at every step. If I tell her that next time, she should let me know if a certain supplier has a certain deal, she took that as me saying she was ineffective and inefficient. If I told her that she looks good today, she'll take that as me meaning she didn't look good yesterday. When she would call me and cry, I would explain what I meant. Then later when she calmed down, she would call and apologize because after re-reading, she realized it wasn't actually bad in the first place. This would happen almost on a daily basis. I would rearrange my words for hours on a daily basis before sending her emails, to no avail. No matter what I said or did, her first reaction was offense. We would waste countless hours each day dealing with this. When she had problems with me, she would never tell me, making the problem quadruple in her mind to the point where she was calling Dr. Laura or whoever that radio personality is on a weekly basis. But she never told me - her excuse: she prefers harmony. Well, how harmonious is dishonesty and secret resentments? I ended the partnership last week. She has called me every day since then crying and wondering why it was over.
No matter what I say, she won't hear me. She imagines what she believes to be the truth and refuses to face reality. If she asks, and I answer, she will just add her own color to it and go off on tangents. So I have to use stronger words, so she gets it. Then that starts a whole new cycle of tears because I am so mean... She lives in her own fantasy world. And all the hours on the phone doing crisis management, she thinks that was
productive and she still can't understand why this stresses me out and makes me want to sever ties with her.
Because she refuses to hear me, I must be quite aggressive with my words - so there is no misinterpretation. And this is when the tears start again. I have no patience at this point because I have tried and failed, so the tears seem like a tactic to make me concede or feel bad. This sort of manipulation irritates me to no end. She wouldn't have been hurt if she had just listened in the first place.
I think NTJs, in particular, can get caught up with making everything fit into their own box. Maybe it's the Te, I don't know... I don't always feel that they are using logic in their arguments, but force and aggression. Maybe it's my perception, though. It is harder for me to argue with an NTJ in person and would much rather do it by writing, so the words are clear and they have time to think before they speak.
I know it's not easy to deal with us, but we are not monsters. It's also hard for us to deal with you guys. This is why I'm very happy to have found this forum. No matter what anyone says about MBTI, I've learned quite a bit.
Learning to tailor it so people don't take offense is a daily challenge. And you have to if you're going to avoid simmering resentment and passive aggression, because direct complaints are bad for preserving the peace. Sometimes it's too energy-consuming so I minimize the odds that I'll have to do it.
