[NT] NTs, just plain rude?

[juggernaut]

Ha! Told you we were fluffy and wuvable. It's a ruse. How many have you taken home to "care for"?

We're even charming when we're not being charming.

D'oh! foiled again! To answer your question, far too many.

 

[MacGuffin]

 

[thisGuy]

i think thats where growing up comes in.

im a strongly typed ENTP but i do know that my Fe is fairly well developed. i might not empathize with people due to my strong NT nature but i can sympathize with them....and i do what i know is right and disregard what i think might be right cuz thats usually inconsiderate of others

 

[thisGuy]

yesterday i was actually confused if i might be going over to ENFP but then i thought about it and coexistence of a Ti and Fe sounds much more like it....or thats what i think

 

[mippus]

scary thoughts don't last too long

 

[Tallulah]

I love that the thread right above this one is "NT Charm."

 

[ajblaise]

I love that the thread right above this one is "NT Charm."

Yeah, it's a fine line.

 

[ed111]

George Burns, I believe. I seem to have misplaced the certificate.

I wasn't talking to you in particular. I was making a random offensive comment that might have seemed amusing in the context of this thread.

 

[Salomé]

I think jokes/joking comments are a different thing altogether, though. For me, funny is funny, and if you succeed in making me laugh, then I won't care if it was insensitive or what have you. I'd have laughed pretty hard at the above comment, and I'd have also known that you weren't being oblivious and rude, just trying to lighten the situation by injecting some humor.

That's the thing tho, isn't it? What's funny to an NT is perhaps offensive to someone else. We are quite hard to offend. Sometimes, even if I do find something hurtful/offensive, I'll reason myself out of it. I'll conclude that I've no right to feel that way. But most people won't. They always believe their feelings are entirely valid.

It seems to me that "rudeness" is a pretty subjective thing. The things I find rude (e.g. asking too many personal questions, invading my personal space, expecting me to participate in meaningless social rituals, judging my lifestyle, asking stupid questions rather than doing a bit of research) might be considered normal or inoffensive by the prevailing majority so I just have to put up with it.

The things I do that others might consider rude (stuff like being late, forgetting appointments and anniversaries, zoning out, forgetting to return a phone call, sarcastic humour, honest criticism, not smiling or engaging in mundane pleasantries) either don't bother me, or actually appeal when I encounter them in others. Why should I embrace someone else's values about what is acceptable and what isn't?

I think truly rude people are either a) totally oblivious to the tone of their comments, b) not caring whether they come across as rude, because they're more concerned with themselves than others' feelings, or c) wanting to disarm/assert a dominant position through shock value or an attempt to lower someone's confidence or self-esteem.

Probably most NT fall in the a) category, because we have very little interest in being the alpha dog.

I don't think we're oblivious to the tone so much as oblivious as to the effect. In order to be aware of that effect you have to be able to empathise. But if what you are saying wouldn't cause you offense if someone said it to you, then empathy doesn't really work. Instead you have to learn a whole set of rules about how other people's minds work. It's like being mildly autistic.

Sometimes frustration and impatience emerge as rudeness/intolerance. We are known for not suffering fools gladly.

(c) is interesting. I hadn't thought of it as being a strategy for dominance. I like to shock (and be shocked, within reason) because I like novelty and hate cliche. Shock tactics can make you think about something in a new way, and I always welcome that. A lot of people don't though.

 

[mystify529]

For years my ESFJ mother has been on my case about my lack of consideration for other people's feeling, or put more plainly, my rudeness. I've always known her opinion of me was fairly accurate.

What I'm wondering is whether rudeness is the true defining feature of the NT personality? For a while I thought it was, perhaps, just an NTJ thing. Then I realized that were just as many, if not more, rude NTPs. After that I considered that the rude/not rude split might be along E/I lines....now I feel fairly confident that the INTs are just as rude as the ENTs. Are NTs, as a group, just rude people?

Disclaimer: If you think you're a polite NT, please feel free to politely share with us why you think that's the case. I don't want to start another flamewar between the NTs, I just would like to know how other NTs see themselves.

hmm.. rudeness, one of the most frequent complaints I get from people (who are courageous enough to tell me that)
I think one reason for this is because we value honesty a lot lot more than being nice. Since we are trying to be efficient and to the point, our honesty (even if they're sincere) comes off as being extremely blunt. Another reason is because we're focused into fixing or solving a problem so we tend to eliminate the social graces and the "beating around the bush" because they're ineffective and a total waste of time.

In my opinion, the delivery is as important as the truth. People can be defensive when the delivery is wrong so what I just said (even if it's the truth) becomes useless. People are more likely to accept the truth if the delivery is acceptable and non-judgmental.

On the emotional perspective, putting emphasis on the delivery means caring for the other person's feelings.

On the thinking perspective, delivery is just part of the equation for producing results.

 

[Totenkindly]

What I'm wondering is whether rudeness is the true defining feature of the NT personality?

No, I would never use a negative quality as the "defining feature" of any personality type.

It's because NT has a rational basis for their behavior, which might or might not accommodate social norms, and it is extremely resistant to pressure from said social forces unless the logic being used somehow accommodates it.

(e.g., an NT politician can conform to social norms as part of a rational process of wooing people to get what she wants... but the behavior is pragmatic in approach, not instinctive).

Then I realized that were just as many, if not more, rude NTPs.

Thank you. That's so very kind, will you be my special friend now?

Disclaimer: If you think you're a polite NT, please feel free to politely share with us why you think that's the case. I don't want to start another flamewar between the NTs, I just would like to know how other NTs see themselves.

I'm pretty polite, by choice, because I don't see the point in burning bridges; I'm cognizant of the social norms and I see it as rational to follow them when I can... but when I was younger I got myself into trouble a bit with the SJ police. And I got chewed out earlier this season by my ISFP roommate who apparently thought NTs were the rudest people around because we operate different in terms of the social norms. But no, when I am rude, it's by choice and not by accident.

Usually where I get into the most trouble with with my sense of humor. I find social gaffs amusing, and with friends I will sometimes offer the most "inappropriate" response possible, as a joke. However, if someone else witnesses it, they sometimes take it for real and get offended. The other week I even confused my best friend (another INTP, and we do this all the time with each other); he actually couldn't figure out "why I was mad" and apologized to me, but I thought he would have picked up on what I was doing. (Once I told him, he adjusted beautifully and stepped up the sarcasm pace.)

What I can't stand are people who say stuff like, "Wow, you've gained a lot of weight since the last time I saw you!" or something equally rude and offputting. What is to gain by not filtering a comment like that? I can only imagine that things like that are said to even the playing field and take the receiver down a few pegs. Because, seriously? You've reached adulthood and not realized that things like that are offensive? No way.

Yeah, that's just banal.

At least invest some wit in the jest, don't just be stupid-rude.

 

[lane777]

In my opinion, the delivery is as important as the truth. People can be defensive when the delivery is wrong so what I just said (even if it's the truth) becomes useless. People are more likely to accept the truth if the delivery is acceptable and non-judgmental.

It's unfortunate that few NT's are aware of this.

 

[forzen]

I been told i been rude on more than one occasions, but i don't take opinion as facts so their out of luck.

 

[Costrin]

I have been told I have been rude on more than one occasions, but I don't take opinions as facts so they're out of luck.

l2english, you noob.

 

[Lurker]

If I'm walking on eggshells with someone, worried about seeming rude, it means I'm not comfortable with that person. So, if I appear rude, it could mean that I like you. (Or not, depends you know)

 

[Anonymous]

I'm polite on my own terms. I express gratitude, practice reciprocity, and all that jazz, but I don't follow the truly stupid/pointless norms such as saying "bless you" when someone sneezes.

 

[Shaula]

For years my ESFJ mother has been on my case about my lack of consideration for other people's feeling, or put more plainly, my rudeness. I've always known her opinion of me was fairly accurate.

What I'm wondering is whether rudeness is the true defining feature of the NT personality? For a while I thought it was, perhaps, just an NTJ thing. Then I realized that were just as many, if not more, rude NTPs. After that I considered that the rude/not rude split might be along E/I lines....now I feel fairly confident that the INTs are just as rude as the ENTs. Are NTs, as a group, just rude people?

Disclaimer: If you think you're a polite NT, please feel free to politely share with us why you think that's the case. I don't want to start another flamewar between the NTs, I just would like to know how other NTs see themselves.

First off, all types have the potential to be rude. For example, I know an ESTJ who I would consider to be just as rude as another ENTJ I know. But there are probably some types that have a higher likelihood of rudeness versus others. From observational evidence it's not unreasonable to assume that NTs have a higher percentage of lack of consideration due to their rationality as Jennifer pointed out. I think the politeness of an NT depends on whether or not they make the personal decision to moniter/filter their behaviour (for whatever reason).

In my opinion, the delivery is as important as the truth. People can be defensive when the delivery is wrong so what I just said (even if it's the truth) becomes useless. People are more likely to accept the truth if the delivery is acceptable and non-judgmental.

+1

By recognising your audience's needs, you are able to deliver them a better product.

I'm pretty polite, by choice, because I don't see the point in burning bridges; I'm cognizant of the social norms and I see it as rational to follow them when I can... but when I was younger I got myself into trouble a bit with the SJ police. And I got chewed out earlier this season by my ISFP roommate who apparently thought NTs were the rudest people around because we operate different in terms of the social norms. But no, when I am rude, it's by choice and not by accident.

Usually where I get into the most trouble with with my sense of humor. I find social gaffs amusing, and with friends I will sometimes offer the most "inappropriate" response possible, as a joke. However, if someone else witnesses it, they sometimes take it for real and get offended. The other week I even confused my best friend (another INTP, and we do this all the time with each other); he actually couldn't figure out "why I was mad" and apologized to me, but I thought he would have picked up on what I was doing. (Once I told him, he adjusted beautifully and stepped up the sarcasm pace.)

For these same reasons I choose to be polite.

 

[Zoom]

I am not rude, and am in fact one of the more automatically polite people I know, since I will not raise my voice or go down to someone's level when they are angry because I feel like less of myself afterward.

That's not to say that I am better than those who let it all out, but I cannot hurt someone without feeling pain myself, so I'm very, very 'polite'. Logically, it simply makes things run more smoothly when the social wheels are greased, and people listen much better when their hackles aren't up. Being polite for me is also simply a more efficient way of communicating.

 

[Vildechaya]

In Groups, can be the rudest!

We are not always tactful. But usually do not mean harm. But in groups can be awful. :steam: (personal problem)

 

[Fluffywolf]

Many a people in my life has seen and viewed me as rude. I have no doubt about that.

But it was a lesson they needed to learn.