[ENTP] ENTP and meditation

[professor goodstain]

I certanly don't buy in to all the pseudo self hypnosis or zen they say one can seek through some kind of relaxing concentration or concentrated relaxation or something along those lines. hell. idk

However, i can find it very relaxing by concentrating on keeping the BS i provided relevant to the subject in a conversation/argument because i forgot (was on the tip of my tonge) some of the real details replaced by BS due to the importence of the argument/conversation.

Can even get into what is called (the zone) This is only IRL. And Yes, i've been slugged a time or two.

This may be inconsistent with my character on this site but that's only due to my inhibitions that i caused all on my own by getting booted off 2 or more threads early on from never having been on any forum before and only reading 5 posts before putting in my .02. All 5 of which were the next closest thing to flaming bait. lol

 

[entropie]

Its not that far fetched as you may think. I find it though not good that you give our secrets away

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_a4fQfMQlA"]Shadow[/YOUTUBE]

 

[substitute]

Been doing it for years, though in fact now that I think of it, haven't done it for a couple of months. Maybe that's why I'm all over the place at the moment.

Very much recommend it, but I find there's just no use trying to tether the Ne... what I found works for me is to just simply sit still and close my eyes in a dark room, and let my mind wander wherever it wants to go but stay the fuck still and don't keep getting up. It takes about an hour before all the general junk has got out of my system and I can feel like the ether, as it were, is talking to me, rather than me talking to it, and that's when the realizations happen, all in the last ten minutes, that make it worthwhile.

 

[Halla74]

...what I found works for me is to just simply sit still and close my eyes in a dark room, and let my mind wander wherever it wants to go but stay the fuck still and don't keep getting up.

How in God's name can you even do this? I am serious, there is no way in hell I could sit still for an hour in a dark, quiet room. That would be the equivalent of waterboarding to me, absolut fucking torture. You are a brave man!

It takes about an hour before all the general junk has got out of my system and I can feel like the ether, as it were, is talking to me, rather than me talking to it, and that's when the realizations happen, all in the last ten minutes, that make it worthwhile.

Kind of like REM sleep, eh? You have to be down sleeping for X hours before REM hits, and then BOOM! That's when the dreams and all the good rest happens.

I might be able to meditate when I'm 75 years old. I am not discounting it at all, I personally have just never been compelled to try it as a means of achieving greater inner peace, which I damn well need to do at this point in my life, but that hasn't been the avenue I've chosen to try achieving it yet.

I think at this point the farthest I've gotten is good old introspection, sitting down and identifying my troubling thoughts and figuring out what I must DO to resolve them. In the last few weeks I have been encouraged to try and determine how I FEEL about my troubles, and just how I FEEL in general. Ironically that's been alot harder to do.

 

[Risen]

Been doing it for years, though in fact now that I think of it, haven't done it for a couple of months. Maybe that's why I'm all over the place at the moment.

I used to meditate regularly, on some deep levels. I have stopped for several months and I must say I come unhinged way too easily compared to when I used to meditate regularly. Meditation makes you a better person .

 

[jenocyde]

Yes, waterboarding - very accurate description...

Prof - I feel ya on trying to stick to the topics. It's difficult, but rewarding when I can accomplish it.

 

[Risen]

There's a lot of mysticism and pseudoscience around meditation, but it has faded away over the years. What it really boils down to is being able to use that grand tool we call "the brain" and take greater mastery over it. Meditation and many other martial arts (such as the internal arts of China) work to exercise your conscious control of brain functions, though they explain it through lofty concepts such as chi or prana. It's nothing more than contrived manifestations of or imagined explanations for what is created by the brain when one focuses their conscious mind in abnormal ways. The ability for monks to raise their body temperatures to deathly high temperatures, for martial artists to punch throw layers of bricks, and all the other seemingly superhuman abilities expressed by deep practitioners are just examples of superior mind/conscious control. Most mental processes and body function are carried out by the unconscious segments of the brain, but the conscious mind can instigate on just about any of those functions with the proper feedback to train it. The result is being able to consciously direct anything in your mind or body that your brain would otherwise be able to do unconsciously.

 

[substitute]

I think you mean mystification, not mysticism. It kinda is mysticism, really, that's the point... but there's a massive amount of demystification that needs to go on about other crap that's been tacked onto the idea.

Hella - I couldn't manage an hour to start with. Sometimes even after years of doing it I was hard pushed to keep still for ten minutes. Yes, it can be difficult. On a good run though, at times when I've managed to make a point of doing it once a day, by about the third day it's coming easier and by the end of the week it's not keeping still I have trouble with, but actually wanting to get back up! I get so chilled and content, you know, it's a real case of 'girding my loins'/rolling my sleeves up afterwards... but even that's made easier by the clearer sense of purpose, acceptance and method I have after the experience. And yeah, very much like the idea of REM sleep.

I never found that the approach of trying to stick to a topic did anything for me. I found it more useful to treat my hyperactive brain like an overly talkative kid - let it ramble and then when it finally runs out of steam, my subconscious is like, "Right, have you finished?" and it shuffles its feet and says, sheepishly, "yes sir" and shuts up. That's when the good stuff happens.

 

[Risen]

I think you mean mystification, not mysticism. It kinda is mysticism, really, that's the point... but there's a massive amount of demystification that needs to go on about other crap that's been tacked onto the idea.

Hella - I couldn't manage an hour to start with. Sometimes even after years of doing it I was hard pushed to keep still for ten minutes. Yes, it can be difficult. On a good run though, at times when I've managed to make a point of doing it once a day, by about the third day it's coming easier and by the end of the week it's not keeping still I have trouble with, but actually wanting to get back up! I get so chilled and content, you know, it's a real case of 'girding my loins'/rolling my sleeves up afterwards... but even that's made easier by the clearer sense of purpose, acceptance and method I have after the experience. And yeah, very much like the idea of REM sleep.

I never found that the approach of trying to stick to a topic did anything for me. I found it more useful to treat my hyperactive brain like an overly talkative kid - let it ramble and then when it finally runs out of steam, my subconscious is like, "Right, have you finished?" and it shuffles its feet and says, sheepishly, "yes sir" and shuts up. That's when the good stuff happens.

No, I meant MYSTICISM, but mystification also applies.

 

[substitute]

I looked up the word on wiki and got this:

Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion[1]) is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight. Mysticism usually centers on a practice or practices intended to nurture that experience or awareness. Mysticism may be dualistic, maintaining a distinction between the self and the divine, or may be nondualistic. Differing religious traditions have described this fundamental mystical experience in different ways:

* Nullification and absorption within God's Infinite Light (Chassidic schools of Judaism)
* Complete detachment from the world (Kaivalya in some schools of Hinduism, including Sankhya and Yoga; Jhana in Buddhism)
* Liberation from the cycles of Karma (Moksha in Jainism and Hinduism, Nirvana In Buddhism)
* Deep intrinsic connection to the world (Satori in Mahayana Buddhism, Te in Taoism)
* Union with God (Henosis in Neoplatonism and Theosis in Eastern and Catholic Christianity, Brahma-Prapti or Brahma-Nirvana in Hinduism)
* Innate Knowledge (Irfan and fitra in Islam)
* Experience of one's true blissful nature (Samadhi or Svarupa-Avirbhava in Hinduism)

So, given the very broad parameters and the fact that within them, non-religious stuff is contained, I dunno how meditation can be separated from ideas of mysticism of some kind, otherwise I dunno how it could really be meditation, as opposed to sorta "cogitation" or just having a bit of a quiet think lol

The ones I've bolded have been the main emphasis in my personal practice...

 

[Risen]

I looked up the word on wiki and got this:



So, given the very broad parameters and the fact that within them, non-religious stuff is contained, I dunno how meditation can be separated from ideas of mysticism of some kind, otherwise I dunno how it could really be meditation, as opposed to sorta "cogitation" or just having a bit of a quiet think lol

The ones I've bolded have been the main emphasis in my personal practice...

It all depends on how you choose to explain the phenomena that encircles the practice of meditating. From a scientific point of view we have a fair handle on the general effects it has on the brain and one's cognitive functioning. We can assume that any sort of "spiritual" experience is a manifestation of physical brain phenomena, thus, from that perspective one separates the act of meditating and it's scientifically observed effects from any mysticism.

 

[substitute]

yeah I suppose so. I just don't see why there has to be such a rivalry between science and things of the spirit. I mean I don't see why knowing how something happens automatically invalidates it or makes it any less, like, you know, special? Or why calling it one thing means you gotta sorta degrade the other words for it. So many of the definitions can exist side by side without contradicting each other, like I say, the science just explains "how", but only experience tells us "what".

 

[ajblaise]

Some people get a lot out of meditation, and there are studies that help explain the brain changes that take place.

As an INTP, I'm practically meditating as I write this, so maybe extroverts stand to gain more from it.

 

[Halla74]

I never found that the approach of trying to stick to a topic did anything for me. I found it more useful to treat my hyperactive brain like an overly talkative kid - let it ramble and then when it finally runs out of steam, my subconscious is like, "Right, have you finished?" and it shuffles its feet and says, sheepishly, "yes sir" and shuts up. That's when the good stuff happens.

Damn Bro, if there's the chance MY hyperactive brain will run out of steam and "shut the fuck up" I am going to have to try this meditation thing out. I don't know the last time my brain turned off. Even before I go to bed I am scheming and imagining and trying to solve shit, and then the next morning I wake up and it starts all over again. It's a fucking curse I tell you!

 

[jenocyde]

It's a fucking curse I tell you!

It's a blessing in disguise.

 

[substitute]

It's a blessing in disguise.

A very very good disguise, that during meditation has its dark glasses and false moustache brutally ripped off

 

[sculpting]

Wanted to share just in case it's of any use:

My favorite guy ENTP at work told me the other day I should be less stressed. He suggested I should try meditation. (This ENTP is well loved by most I work with for his deep sense of integrity and his kindness and ability to work well with others)

Later, remembering this thread, I stopped by his office and asked if he routinely meditated. It was funny as you could tell he was a little uncomfortable talking about it but still wanted to share, sort of ackwardly though.

He said that he meditates every day for about ten minutes. He had been doing this for about seven years since his career change. This confused me as he has always been a scientist.

When I asked about the career change, he said "My career change when I decided that my family was my career and that i wanted to give something back to the world. I was so busy trying to climb my way up the career path to become a tenured professor and I was not giving back to my family or society" He said this was a life changing moment for him and he really stopped and took a deep look at his life.

He is not religious in any organized or even deeply spiritual way. He is about 43 and has been meditating I guess for five years or so-ie life changing path at 36?

 

[entropie]

I once read about a concept from Japan, called pr0n meditation.

It basically needs a male and a movie. The male starts the movie then from the beginning and sitting there, watches... use your Ne know for further understanding

I heard real japanese gurus can watch 48 hours without even blinking

 

[Aerithria]

I've never really been able to meditate. At least, not traditionally speaking. I find that I can't have a relaxed body and a relaxed mind at the same time; at least one of them has to be doing something, or I give up extremely early in the process. And ever since the incident when I was younger where I crashed my bike into my mailbox because I wasn't paying attention, I've mostly given up on it. Sucks, though, it'd be fun to actually experience some of the many stated benefits.

 

[Fluxkom]

I started with Yoga last week.

It had the effect, that my mind all of a sudden, after 20 minutes or so after we start, shuts up. All the crazy mind spinning ideas whirling through my head normally are gone. But I don't feel empty, I can really embrace this state.

Part of the workout is deep, beneficial relaxation at the end. And what is funny and quite interesting to experience is, that during the relaxation part my body starts sleeping, but my mind is not. I could feel that my body was asleep wich is real weird.

Looking forward to next week!