User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 100

  1. #61
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    I'm just curious to see an example of what Synaech is talking about in his OP.
    I get the feeling I'm not rightly educated here.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #62
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    In general, making the assumption that the T/F diff is somewhat biological in origin-evolution is a whore of a mistress. She finds the best solution via trial and error and implements it. The solution we currently have, was the best combination of types/functions to keep humans alive as a functional species. Thus you need both thinking driven and feeling driven decision making in combination it seems to have a balanced society.
    Yes, exactly, and it seems much more realistic to me to let some people lean more one way and some the other and then just cooperate together, than to try making out that every individual should aspire to attain a perfect inner balance of both inclinations. This might be the Taoist in me speaking, but I tend not to like things that recommend trying to alter your innate nature by internal struggle because of external pressure. I mean, if you're ready to make a change in yourself and it's necessary, you will naturally do it anyway. Lecturing a T that s/he should be more value and feeling driven or an F that s/he should be more logical and objective isn't really going to achieve anything except to either put their backs up, or else make them feel down on themselves, like they're "not good enough", I think that witih most mortals it only stands in the way of them finding self-acceptance.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #63
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yes, exactly, and it seems much more realistic to me to let some people lean more one way and some the other and then just cooperate together, than to try making out that every individual should aspire to attain a perfect inner balance of both inclinations. This might be the Taoist in me speaking, but I tend not to like things that recommend trying to alter your innate nature by internal struggle because of external pressure. I mean, if you're ready to make a change in yourself and it's necessary, you will naturally do it anyway. Lecturing a T that s/he should be more value and feeling driven or an F that s/he should be more logical and objective isn't really going to achieve anything except to either put their backs up, or else make them feel down on themselves, like they're "not good enough", I think that witih most mortals it only stands in the way of them finding self-acceptance.
    My goodness, this is so perfect and true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I guess I'm too old for most of you to get my reference: You Are There (series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sigh.

    Yes, I am old enough to remember *sniffle*

  4. #64
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Thanks, heh!

    I mean there's a difference between learning to understand and value the functions you're weak in, and therefore respecting and valuing the people who are profficient in them - and actually trying to alter your own nature so as to acquire profficiency in them yourself. I can admire someone who's good at sports without feeling the need to become good at sports myself, at the expense of excellence in the things I'm already good in. And that guy didn't get so good at sports by studying linguistics all his life to be more "rounded"

    We're all such a delicate balance of qualities, strengths and weaknesses that in trying to alter that balance there's as much chance of doing harm as there is good. Might as well just understand and embrace it as it is, instead, rather than chase after an unattainable ideal - none of us will ever be perfect
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #65
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    One of the unfortunate consequences of a classification system like MBTi is that it encourages a reactionary mindset against other types and tendencies rather than encouraging the view of there being a boundary-less, complex spectrum of behavior in which the value of each "type" expression is largely situational. Factionalism is a consequence of defining type.

    One problem I have is with the NT prejudice against Feeling. As if being dispassionate is a virtue, applied generally. There seems to be this idea that being an NT means cutting loose from emotional motivations or values, as if this is even possible. Rational sense must work in concert with emotional sense to achieve wholeness as a person. There is really no division. So, why do we NT's devalue "feeling" or at least leading with a feeling orientation? How do you personally define feeling? Can you be healthy and dispassionate?
    Yes I aggree. Sometimes this whole MBTI thing seems like grouping from High School and too often its used to generalize unique personalities into much more larger groups. I think tho, it is not possible to get rid of that, cause most humans cannot live with the concept of infinity diversity in infinite combinations.

    It would drive them insane
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #66
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFP
    Posts
    1,210

    Default

    I mean there's a difference between learning to understand and value the functions you're weak in, and therefore respecting and valuing the people who are profficient in them - and actually trying to alter your own nature so as to acquire profficiency in them yourself. I can admire someone who's good at sports without feeling the need to become good at sports myself, at the expense of excellence in the things I'm already good in. And that guy didn't get so good at sports by studying linguistics all his life to be more "rounded"
    This seems like a weak analogy because being good at sports or linguistics is not a necessary condition to lead a rich and satisfying life (feelers) or even a healthy life (thinkers). Being good at sports is neither necessary nor sufficient for most people to lead healthy lives. However, learning the value of exercise and being able to incorporate in our lives could be valuable to most people. Similarly, realizing the importance of both and making an effort to incorporate more of the weaker function (be it thinking or feeling) could help with leading healthier lives.

  7. #67
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    This seems like a weak analogy because being good at sports or linguistics is not a necessary condition to lead a rich and satisfying life (feelers) or even a healthy life (thinkers). Being good at sports is neither necessary nor sufficient for most people to lead healthy lives. However, learning the value of exercise and being able to incorporate in our lives could be valuable to most people. Similarly, realizing the importance of both and making an effort to incorporate more of the weaker function (be it thinking or feeling) could help with leading healthier lives.
    I don't think being as good with Fe as an EXFJ is essential to a fulfilling life either, same goes for any function. Hell, my grandma had to be the most useless woman when it came to organizing stuff, she had the most atrocious Te, yet she was one of the happiest and wisest people I ever knew. I know my Fi is awful, but people comment on how I seem more confident and at peace than most people my age.

    Self-acceptance is though. And the process you're describing happens naturally in most people anyway - call it growing up, maturing, gaining wisdom or whatever you like, but it happens to most people without having to make a point of it all the time. Like I say, when people are ready to change or grow and they see the need, they do naturally, and it's usually experience that's the catalyst and crucible, not self-improvement books or do-goody psychologists. No need to bash people over the heads with their weaknesses. God, it's like some kind of religious evangelist, always trying to tell you what you need to be happy, when what you really need is to be left alone to find your own way and accept yourself, to be accepted and loved and just use your own life experiences to gain wisdom like people have since time began.

    Sure, some people don't seem to learn too well, but I'd argue that they wouldn't anyway - because they're not ready, maybe they never will be, but either way, it's not an occasion for neurotically railing against their inner selves. Maybe they just need to accept themselves as not being particularly wise, and other people need to accept that too, since I'm sure they have other strengths that can be appreciated.

    Compassion can be developed through T just as well as through F, and if people were more compassionate about others' flaws rather than demand they change all the time, it'd help those people to accept and love themselves, then that'd spontaneously lead to better behaviour anyway.

    And besides, there's more to life than just trying to be as happy as I can possibly be. To some people, stuff like that just seems peculiar as a thing to focus your life and energy on. We're not all individualists you know
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #68
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Socionics
    INTp
    Posts
    264

    Default

    I do not see prejudice, just 'defense' from both sides. And, I do not think it is generalized, it is more a focus on certain behavioral traits in each group that the other does not like. It isn't resolvable because people are people, and the first thing that happens when you attack someone for being who they are made to be is that they stop listening and start defending. A good relationship - even friends - involves celebrating the differences, not focusing on the negatives
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  9. #69
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFP
    Posts
    1,210

    Default

    I don't think being as good with Fe as an EXFJ is essential to a fulfilling life either, same goes for any function. Self-acceptance is though. And the process you're describing happens naturally in most people anyway - call it growing up, maturing, gaining wisdom or whatever you like, but it happens to most people without having to make a point of it all the time. Like I say, when people are ready to change or grow and they see the need, they do naturally. No need to bash people over the heads with their weaknesses. God, it's like some kind of religious evangelist, always trying to tell you what you need to be happy, when what you really need is to be left alone to find your own way and accept yourself, to be accepted and loved and just use your own life experiences to gain wisdom like people have since time began.
    1. I agree with you - it is an individual path to either decide (active) to work on or naturally let the weaker function develop (passive).
    2. The point I was trying to make above wasn't that NTs should attempt to become as proficient in dealing with their emotions or that NFs should work to become as objective as NTs. I don't even know if that is possible or a worthwhile goal. Gaining some skills in the weaker function could help, that's all. Hey - there's a difference between acknowledgment that something is useful and proselytizing for the cause. I lean towards the former as proselytism is loathsome in any form. :-)
    3. I also assume that having the N sort of assumes a natural propensity towards improvement in conditions - personal and impersonal. Hence the assumption that developing the weaker function would be desirable.
    4. I couldn't agree with you more - accepting oneself for who one is is a good first step in general. It seems to involve emotions though, doesn't it? :-)

  10. #70
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelovesyoumaybe View Post
    Um okay, so I didn't read any of the replies simply because I cannot be bothered, I just wanted to add that I feel that prejudice as well. One T boldly told me that "feelers are fucking weak" I was like, "Oh really?" because if not myself, I know a lot of feelers that are hella strong.
    Yes. 'Tis annoying that having an F in your type means some people regard you as a powder puff until you prove otherwise. Hardly. I do, however, have much concern for others and am inclined towards giving to and doing for others. I push myself, I don't run from challenges, I don't run away from things that are difficult to deal with. I analyze constantly, it's just that humans are my preferred interest. This is how my 'F' is expressed. I much prefer the umbrella word 'Ethical' used in Socionics which implies that judgement and rationality are used in decision making rather than the almost pejorative term that 'Feeling' has become.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yes I aggree. Sometimes this whole MBTI thing seems like grouping from High School and too often its used to generalize unique personalities into much more larger groups. I think tho, it is not possible to get rid of that, cause most humans cannot live with the concept of infinity diversity in infinite combinations.

    It would drive them insane
    Yup. I found MBTI very useful when I was first delving into personality typing. It isn't built for deeper analysis though. Too many exceptions to apparent rules when applied finely. It can obscure the individual. (bleh!) Also, I notice when people adhere to it rigidly they seem to stagnate in a mindset, it becomes limiting. I prefer the Enneagram as a system in that respect, it seems to promote growth and examining oneself rather than holding a party line.

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] Why are all the NFs jealous of the NTs?
    By ThatsWhatHeSaid in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 161
    Last Post: 06-24-2009, 12:19 AM
  2. [NT] Sir YES Sir! The NT's guide to falling in line:
    By ThatGirl in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-08-2008, 02:57 PM
  3. [NT] The NT Rationale and Rightness
    By Spartan in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-20-2007, 05:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO