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  1. #21
    morose bourgeoisie
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    So often, 'reason' carries with it a list of subconscious presuppositions that are largely based on feelings. How else could two rational people come to completely different conclusions? Because that which is a priori to their logical assessment is based on an individual perspective, which is by nature irrational.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    Ahhh... but now where do we draw the line between following your gut/intuition and following your feelings? Does that make an NF more ridiculous than an SF?

    That's an excellent point. I would say there is a distinct difference between gut-level responses/intuitions and emotional states. I am far more inclined to pay heed to the former as I see it as an alarm, or early detection system. Emotions as Humean violent (strong, not karate chop inducing) passions, on the other hand, I tend to see as slightly less useful. They often cloud one's judgment and prevent us from seeing the most effective or efficient way to navigate daily life. The calm passions (goals, desires and aversions based on reflection, and brain-storming in its early stages) do keep us moving in the direction we want to go though.

    Obviously reason is inert without the passions. There's simply nothing to motivate it. Nevertheless, if reason becomes entirely enslaved by the passions you could end up a serial killer (or worse).

  3. #23
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I don't think I have a prejudice against feelers. In fact, I wish I were an NF of some sort...I still kind of wish I were INFP. Emotional self-awareness is a good thing to have (and I don't have it ).
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #24
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post

    Obviously reason is inert without the passions. There's simply nothing to motivate it. Nevertheless, if reason becomes entirely enslaved by the passions you could end up a serial killer (or worse).
    you could say the same the other way round. if passion/emotion/empathy is held entirely in a headlock by reason... well, you can rationalize anything if you've a mind to, with no conscience, no values or compassion to stop you...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
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    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #25
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    ^ Yes but there's nothing that would motivate you to do anything in the first place if you're without any feeling or emotion. There's nothing that would require rationalization if you're already being completely rational. You have to have a desire/behavior to rationalize, and that starts with the passions. There would be no reason to kill, maim, steal, abuse, etc. if one is operating solely based on reason.

  6. #26
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    ^ Yes but there's nothing that would motivate you to do anything in the first place if you're without any feeling or emotion. There's nothing that would require rationalization if you're already being completely rational. You have to have a desire/behavior to rationalize, and that starts with the passions. There would be no reason to kill, maim, steal, abuse, etc. if one is operating solely based on reason.
    +1

    I don't usually agree with you, but I like when we do.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #27
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I was just gonna say you had a point, but I wasn't really thinking of there being NO emotions, an either one or the other situation, just more if one dominated the other too much. But I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with one dominating the other a bit, in daily life generally.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
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  8. #28
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I was just gonna say you had a point, but I wasn't really thinking of there being NO emotions, an either one or the other situation, just more if one dominated the other too much. But I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with one dominating the other a bit, in daily life generally.
    Which is fair, because if we're talking about humans, we can pretty much assume the presence of a basic basis of emotion.
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  9. #29
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I have pondered this question myself ... interesting to me how many NT's believe they make decisions based on pure logic. Just because you can't necessarily find, label or otherwise define your emotional state does not mean emotions are not there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    There seems to be this idea that being an NT means cutting loose from emotional motivations or values, as if this is even possible. Rational sense must work in concert with emotional sense to achieve wholeness as a person. There is really no division.
    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    As if being dispassionate is a virtue ...
    Wonderful oxymoron.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I think a better question is "Can you be human and be dispassionate?"
    A great question; again, a great oxymoron.

    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    There would be no reason to kill, maim, steal, abuse, etc. if one is operating solely based on reason.
    Disagree; reason exists to prove or disprove theory.

    Reason without emotion, or some sort of moral compass, carries as much inherent danger as unbridled emotional reactions devoid of contemplation.

  10. #30
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    THIS is what I think is the negative side to MBTI/Typing/Socionics.

    It diminishes the role of all these things in a person... feeling shouldn't be measured against thinking. Everyone uses both. People don't fit into these neat, little 16 boxes. It's sad that we try to reduce it to this. There are so many other aspects to personality than just E/I N/S T/F P/J.

    MBTI/Typing/Socionics has been boiled down to a mere gaming science. How to land an ENTP. How to seduce an INTP. It's very sad, and overwhelmingly manipulative...

    I'm sorry I did this in your thread, Synarch. I've become entirely disillusioned with this pop-sci-chology.

    Even the hardest "thinkers" have the most beautiful and deep feelings. It's not accurate/fair/right to say that a certain person doesn't utilize something more than other - considering it's something as universal as FEELINGS and THOUGHTS.

    MBTI/Typing/Socionics seeks to make something so abstract and personal into something concrete. It's inaccurate. It's become a tool for manipulation. It's... a poor classification tool. It does not do what it was intended to do. And has become something... strange.

    Moderation in everything. We should all seek to balance ourselves. But not like this. No excuses for behavior. We are all unique individuals. Some of us share somethings in common, but a set of letters shouldn't be one of them.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

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