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  1. #1
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Default ENTJs & Academia

    I find I have little time or patience for impractical pursuits. The problem is, I've already embarked on a three-year Philosophy degree, and I'm over half way through it.

    How do other ENTJs feel about this? What are your own experiences as an ENTJ? (I was considering asking all NTJs, but then I thought that INTJs are stereotypically academic individuals.)

  2. #2
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Just a quick brainstorm here of all the things that occurred to me when I read the OP:

    My ENTJ's and the ENTJ part of me, tend to want to just extract the useful information from something and then go and use it in the outside world. Formal, institutional academia (specially in the UK) seems more focused quite often on just learning for the sake of hoarding knowledge, and then just using that to pass exams, to get certificates and be admired as a clever person. These things tend to be of little concern to the ENTJ, who just wants to take action and doesn't care whether some obscure examiner far away in another building "certifies" him or her as knowing this, that or the other.

    I think the phrase "knowledge is power" means quite different things to the ENTJ than to say, the INTx. To the former, it means "power to make things happen out there", whilst to the latter it seems to mean more like "power to understand what happens out there, so it doesn't hurt me". The difference between innately self-preservational and pro-active temperaments, perhaps.

    The ENTJ would rather be known by their deeds and actions and achievements in the outside world, whilst the INTx wants to be known for their mental abilities and insight.

    Just some ideas there...
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Lacey's Avatar
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    My college roommate is ENTJ. She's a theatre major. They have classes, obviously, but most of her learning comes from her experiences while stage managing and directing. She completely kicks ass at this stuff. She's awesome! She's also an English major, but she complains about it A LOT. I think the only time she likes writing is when she's writing scripts, which actually go out into the world because they're meant to be performed.

    So, yeah, she's very practical, and she likes to actually DO things. She's told me that actual experience is way more important to her than grades on a paper (which she also kicks ass at anyway).

  4. #4
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I find I have little time or patience for impractical pursuits. The problem is, I've already embarked on a three-year Philosophy degree, and I'm over half way through it.
    ...
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #5
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Speaking as an INTJ with a Philosophy degree, yeah, it got old fairly fast. And it used to be hard work communicating in satisfying ways with all the NTPs.

    Practically speaking, I retain to this day an insistence that western philosophy can and should be characterised by its method more than its content. Which is to say, what I got out of Philosophy in the end was a lot of practice at conceptual analysis.

    (and a grave, unwarranted disdain for all them NTP nerds just because they used to remember philosopher's names.)

    Critical Thinking isn't too harmful to an NTJ. It's a foundation. Philosophy per se can bog us down and lead into losing time. That's how it worked for me.


    Resist the urge to take the study to Masters level. Turn the foundation into something else once the three years are done. Actually, starting looking around now for applications might not be a bad thing. The profs won't really appreciate it in the classroom, but it'll help stop the rot in your own brain. Business ethics. Critical Thinking in Management. Corporate Analysis. Stuff like that. or not. I dunno.

    Why are you interested in Philosophy anyway?

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    Senior Member Rangler's Avatar
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    I'm an Business - Accounting major. In an academic setting I'm mediocre at best. Always have been. But, in real-world environments, I'm usually one of the quickest to excel. I wish I did better academically because I have fear of failure from it.
    R[a]ngl[e]r

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    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Uhm. I'm in mathematical finance now, and I think I really enjoy writing papers, and the mathematical part of the academic world (something that is quite harder to find in real-world settings). I can excel in either more mathematically-oriented examinations, or whenever I have to write down my own ideas and test them. Of course, though, university requires you to take many courses that are not interesting in the slightest (at least, to me), thus can be quite oppressing. However, I'm sure many of my professors in economics and finance have been ENTJs, and they all held a PhD, thus they made it through academia, thus I conclude that ENTJ might be interested in it.

    I think I could have killed myself if I went into philosophy, though.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #8
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Alot of ENTJ seem to hate philosophy!
    Can some you tell me why because i applied for Philosophy and Maths over my life long idea of Computer Science and Maths as i thought it would be really interesting and to an exent useful. Is it that interesting as an actual subject of study? rather than an interesting hobby.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  9. #9
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    ^I love the field. It's where I did my first B.A. and where I am doing graduate work. I think teaching is probably the most practical career of all so it was, and continues to be, a perfect fit for me.

    When I was younger I read quite a bit of philosophy thinking it was just interesting. I enjoyed it for the mental exercise, but like many people never thought it was something one could channel into a career. I never considered teaching. Today, after running a business for several years and raising three children, I realize it is the most practical thing in the world for a person like me to be doing. Working with young adults who will be going out into the world to do all kinds of other important things, teaching them how to reason their way through decisions and carefully analyze important issues, is the most "useful" thing I could be doing with my time and energy.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Heart&Brain's Avatar
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    ENFP here. I never asked myself what to USE my study for when I started ( I hold a Ph.d. in philosophy, continental style). I just fell instantly in love with the whole idea of studying ideas of all sorts - especially in their interaction with material history. I am able to see something attractive in every field of study (like I can see something attractive in everybody I meet - I'm ENFP, right...). But studying ideas, thinkingstyles, conceptual patterns, (in-)consistencies and critical perspectives is like True Love compared to casual flirts of other studies.

    When I started my studies I had expected to meet a lot of interesting people. A lot of unconventional thinkers, intuitives, idealists, I guess.

    Uh, was I disappointed! :confused:

    Either dull bigots nagging and namedropping or alphamales using the department as just one more boxing ring for showing off, control and win. Lots of petty ego's, defensive fear and closed minds.
    Lots of theologically challenged sons of priests, too (WTF is that about?)

    Somebody once described his famous philo-prof as "He is good at academia but has a very low IQ". Indeed, often it's either / or.

    Moral of the tale: choose your study subject with passion and you'll survive the stupidity of academia.

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