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  1. #1
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Default The role of argumentation in ENTPs

    What role does argumentation play with ENTPs? Digesthissickness had a really neat quote that has me thinking on the topic of argumentation, what it means for different people, and its potential roles in a relationship:

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    if you're anything like me, arguing is almost intimate, a way to grow closer to the one you love, and that's why the fights that crop up over and over again suck the intimacy out of it. i like a fight to be productive in some way, or it's just draining.
    To some extent I understand this. Argumentation brings things to the surface, and resolving an area of conflict is extremely gratifying. Also, banter and play verbal sparring can be fun as well, but I draw the line when I notice my punches are starting to land a bit too hard.

    So in what ways do ENTPs argue to try and bond with someone? What goes through your mind as you enter your banter or your fight? Do you enjoy it? When does it quit being enjoyable and become serious or draining?

    ENTPs in particular interest me because of the playful, almost detached enthusiasm they can sometimes argue with others. Also, on a personal real life level, because I've noticed a couple of times they'll keep on amping up the insults until they finally go too far. Like, almost as if it's not real until they do some damage...

  2. #2
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I'll take a stab-please dont kill me entps.

    They like to play and win in a fun way, so the argument is a bit of a contest. To one-up the other person, in a fun way of course (at least they think so...)

    They like to Ne ideas and flip them around and toy with them. They are very agressive and pointed in how they explore ideas, to the point of being argumentative. They flip the idea, poke it, punch it, maul it, find holes in it. If it was your idea.... well it still had holes. And it's lots of fun then to turn the mauling of ideas into a contest they can win. It's a game.

    My crazy ENTP friend pointed out the other day that "there's no crying in science!" after he got in trouble for hurting someone else's feelings in a meeting. He was right, and they were wrong, however it came across as very argumentative to the ISTJ he was working with.

    Me and my favorite ENTP often go to a BBQ place and have screaming debates about whatever topic we are on. We have had to stop many times and tell other folks we are not fighting, and that we are actuually having fun. Don't normal people debate vigourously for fun?

    I haven't been in a relationship with an entp so I can only leave that for those folks to take a stab at.

  3. #3
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    ENTP have trouble being vulnerable. Really, truly vulnerable. They also have trouble expressing tenderness. Consequently, they must relate in ways that avoid these two issues.

    The ability to argue without rancor is an implied intimacy. So, in a way, if an ENTP can argue with you, it is a sign of closeness, provided there is no meanness, of course.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    What goes through your mind as you enter your banter or your fight?
    Honestly, nothing goes through my mind, because I'm not making a decision when I "enter" the banter/fight. It's as natural a way of responding for me as looking up when someone says my name.

  5. #5
    Member lifeintechnicolor's Avatar
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    I only argue with the ones I hold dear to my heart. Cause you know. All that lovey stuff is just gross. To me, it shows that I respect them enough to challenge them. I only challenge the ones I think can handle it.

    Unless the person is ignorant. Then I'm totally calling him/her out, respect or not. It's an easy win; how can I resist?
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  6. #6
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I don't feel anything when I debate - I just collect information. It's just exploration.

    I get to see what makes someone tick, how they process information and how they apply that information. And I also get to learn something more about an actual topic. Anyone who can teach me something is regarded very highly in my eyes. After arguing, I can feel tremendously close to someone - sometimes it's almost the same feeling you have after sex.

    It stops being enjoyable when someone takes an issue personally and gets upset, or refuses to listen to another point of view. If we find ourselves heated and repeating statements over again - it's clearly over.

  7. #7
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't feel anything when I debate - I just collect information. It's just exploration.

    I get to see what makes someone tick, how they process information and how they apply that information. And I also get to learn something more about an actual topic. Anyone who can teach me something is regarded very highly in my eyes. After arguing, I can feel tremendously close to someone - sometimes it's almost the same feeling you have after sex.

    It stops being enjoyable when someone takes an issue personally and gets upset, or refuses to listen to another point of view. If we find ourselves heated and repeating statements over again - it's clearly over.
    You feel NOTHING? No thrill? No excitement? Bullshit.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #8
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    You feel NOTHING? No thrill? No excitement? Bullshit.
    I didn't think I needed to explain that part of it. Sorry haven't slept in days...

    I mean to say I feel nothing as far as anger or judgment - no negative feelings. People often accuse chronic debaters of always being negative, or looking for problems. And it's not that way at all. Of course it's thrilling! That's why it feels so intimate afterward, as if we had sex... Getting into the recesses of someone's mind is almost the equivalent of exploring their body in the same way. The push and pull. It's exhilarating.

  9. #9
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I didn't think I needed to explain that part of it. Sorry haven't slept in days...

    I mean to say I feel nothing as far as anger or judgment - no negative feelings. People often accuse chronic debaters of always being negative, or looking for problems. And it's not that way at all. Of course it's thrilling! That's why it feels so intimate afterward, as if we had sex... Getting into the recesses of someone's mind is almost the equivalent of exploring their body in the same way. The push and pull. It's exhilarating.
    Yea, the push / pull. It's like a dance.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    They like to Ne ideas and flip them around and toy with them. They are very agressive and pointed in how they explore ideas, to the point of being argumentative. They flip the idea, poke it, punch it, maul it, find holes in it. If it was your idea.... well it still had holes. And it's lots of fun then to turn the mauling of ideas into a contest they can win. It's a game.
    Yeah that's the problem, it's just a game to them often. They lack an actual point, so all their twisting and whatnot is nothing more than nonsensical sophistry that rarely contributes anything worthwhile to the discussion.

    Sorry if you want me to look at things in a different way, then by all means present an actual point. Don't waste my time with bullshit.

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