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  1. #81
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    But...what do I know? I don't argue/debate. EVER!
    Do too!

  2. #82
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Do too!
    DO NOT to the power of infinity! I WIN!

  3. #83
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    DO NOT to the power of infinity! I WIN!
    You forget to say no-hitbacks!! Say it fast!!
    "Beware Those Who Are ALWAYS READING BOOKS" - Bukowski

  4. #84
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    ^ what she said....I'm way too erudite for such silly matters.

  5. #85
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    you sure drink alot of coffee.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  6. #86
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    you sure drink alot of coffee.
    Coffee cup, may not be coffee in it.

  7. #87
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Coffee cup, may not be coffee in it.
    Could you imagine if i wrote "you sure drink alot of coffee or what ever is in that cup" i know we'd start goin in circles.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  8. #88
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    DO NOT to the power of infinity! I WIN!
    Nuh-uh!

  9. #89
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    I just noticed this "similar threads" thingie at the bottom of the page... so it's like... oh neat topic.

    Sure it's like uhm... from... april... but that doesn't matter. Right?

    Anyways, the point of argument is nil; arguing solves nothing, it's annoying, and is a waste of time.

    DEBATE, on the other hand... has value twofold.

    It encourages the opponent to think critically about their own position, and it provides cheap entertainment to the ENTP.

    Now, the second one is great, but the first one can branch off indirectly.

    See, if the OPPONENT has to learn whot their own position actually means, either they realize they're wrong, making the entp happy that they won via understanding, or they provide a point that makes sense, changing the ENTP's own beliefs, thereby making the entp happy that they just learned something new.

    Either way, it's win-win.

    Assumming that the opponent in the debate actually thinks critically about their own position and knows WTH they're talking about. If they just spout off random nonsense and don't have any clue how to back it up, it's a total waste of time; this's where arguments come in. An argument is one sided, no information is exchanged. Information may be SENT, but it isn't RECIEVED. Someone in an argument won't learn anything, because they're not trying to.

    Yeu can't change someone's mind once it's made up, it's an impossible task. The only thing yeu can do is present them with the facts, and they have to decide if they actually care about reality or not. Yeu can try to force them to think, but it won't work if they really don't want to. Best yeu can do there is guide them around like a sheep at that point so that yeu at least get the end result yeu were looking for, even if it was more effort and they didn't learn a thing doing it.

    In any case, debating is a game... not one to be won as such... just the act of playing the game is where the enjoyment lies.

    That being said though, I personally will challange all sorts of stuff, even things I believe. If someone holds a different viewpoint than I do, I challange it, so they have to prove whot they believe to themselves, and to me. They might actually be right, but they need to provide evidence of such, and reasoning to back it up. On the other hand, if they hold the same viewpoint that I do... I challange it anyway. I understand through external communication, bouncing ideas off people, and so on, it's an E thing. As such, by playing devil's advocate, I can more easily poke holes in my own theory by poking it in THEIRS, in which case I know where the holes are and can figure out how I would've said it myself, or see if there's a flaw in there somewheres. If they can't argue back their own point, either they don't understand it well enough, or we may in fact both be wrong and I'll have to reconsider my position.

    Either way, I'm going to debate the matter into the ground, and latch onto every single thing, be it an analogy that I go off the end of the world with and abusively turn back against them, or a piece of evidence, where I'll point out how it doesn't apply, or how it can be interpreted to support the opposite argument.

    If yeu don't have someone forcing yeu to evaluate yeur own reasoning, yeu'll never grow. I can't do this to my own self very well at all (E not I), so I do it to everyone else, especially those that hold the same view as I do. I learn more from debating against someone who holds the same view that I do, than I do from trying to think about it on my own, by several factors of magnitude.

    I imagine, that most of this applies to ENTP's in general.

    I'd say sorry for graverobbing, but I love digging up stuff about me. Yay for long dead posts, ressurected!

    Soon, my necromantic goal of becomming a lichess shall be achieved!

  10. #90
    Une Femme est une femme paperoceans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    If they just spout off random nonsense and don't have any clue how to back it up, it's a total waste of time; this's where arguments come in. An argument is one sided, no information is exchanged. Information may be SENT, but it isn't RECIEVED. Someone in an argument won't learn anything, because they're not trying to.

    Yeu can't change someone's mind once it's made up, it's an impossible task. The only thing yeu can do is present them with the facts, and they have to decide if they actually care about reality or not. Yeu can try to force them to think, but it won't work if they really don't want to. Best yeu can do there is guide them around like a sheep at that point so that yeu at least get the end result yeu were looking for, even if it was more effort and they didn't learn a thing doing it.
    Aye-aye, truer words have never been spoken.

    Unfortunately, when this happens to me I tend to lose respect for that person. Say, I admired them or I was curious about how their mind works... somehow we get into a tiny debate and they're just spitting out random shit that makes absolutely no sense. "Arguments" (if you can even call it that) that are weak and flawed. For a moment, I respond with: "I don't understand how you came to that conclusion because blah, blah, blah." If they cannot back up their argument, I lose interest quickly and I try to back out. Or I just go quiet. Which basically means, I am wondering why the hell I started talking to you in the first place.

    I really do not know why I lose interest in people if they cannot back up their statements; it usually leaves me feeling empty because I cannot understand how someone can think that way. Kind of reminds me of the children I used to nanny for, you don't expect that type of behavior from adults, but it seems more common...

    This happened recently with some fella' that I was interested in... as of now he repulses me. There were just so many contradictions in his arguments (and they made no sense whatsoever) that I felt kind of "dirty" inside. I guess you can describe it as bad sex. The kind with vomiting and the sound of a pot of spaghetti being stirred. Yes, it feels like horrible, nasty, Snorlex sex with Jon Gosselin. With him grunting on top while... oh wait, I have a visual...



    Basically, I "argue" with people so that I can understand them more. Otherwise, I'm just doing it for entertainment
    Between that cigarillo and sticking my finger down my throat to see if I could DT, I feel like puking RN.

    Read my Blog.

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