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  1. #41
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Not all praise is patronizing and not all arguing means you're being treated as an intellectual equal.
    But we're not talking about all praise or all arguing, we're being quite specific here, talking about ENTP arguing (generally) and I was talking about a certain kind of praise in a certain kind of situation.

    Also, the fact that things are often taken by the receiver in ways other than that which the giver intended, is kind of the underlying principle beneath the whole of MBTI. I say I'm trying to communicate with you, you say I'm being pushy and aggressive. You say you're showing genuine appreciation, I say I feel patronized and dismissed. What to do, eh?

    edit - the solution, as per MBTI, would seem to be to actually stop distrusting each other and listen to each other, and believe each other about how we actually meant things. But that tends not to happen - see above
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  2. #42
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This thread is about the argumentative nature of ENTPs, and I'm adding my own thoughts on the issue based upon my own experiences with this aspect of the ENTP personality.
    no, read the title. it's about the 'why' behind it, why we do it. it has nothing to do with how fantastically you think you slice through someone's arguments.

    and, you don't have any experience with any of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    My aren't we sensitive? Even after I clearly stated that overall I love ENTPs and I'm not saying ENTPs are dumbasses.
    is that how you usually 'win' your arguments? because if an ENTP left after that, it's because it got too ridiculous and became a waste of time.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    But we're not talking about all praise or all arguing, we're being quite specific here, talking about ENTP arguing (generally) and I was talking about a certain kind of praise in a certain kind of situation.

    Also, the fact that things are often taken by the receiver in ways other than that which the giver intended, is kind of the underlying principle beneath the whole of MBTI. I say I'm trying to communicate with you, you say I'm being pushy and aggressive. You say you're showing genuine appreciation, I say I feel patronized and dismissed. What to do, eh?
    Yes, exactly.

    Edit to respond to your edit -- not to split hairs, but I don't think ENTP is sincere about what it is saying in every case; in fact, with all respect, I think the opposite. I think ENTP argues because it needs pushback. The substance of the argument is often lacking, as Peguy points out. But the argument is most often not for the purpose of finding truth, it's for the purpose of making contact. Once the rest of us understand that, it makes it easier to get up and go a few rounds with you.

  4. #44
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Digest? Are you an F-ster maybe? That is starting to look like an argument between two NFs.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  5. #45
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Digest? Are you an F-ster maybe? That is starting to look like an argument between two NFs.
    uh. no, i'm just killing time while drinking this coffee.

    and, bite your tongue.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    Digest? Are you an F-ster maybe? That is starting to look like an argument between two NFs.


    Seriously tho, Peguy's superior and pompous tone does piss me off too, specially considering that I don't think I've ever seen an original thought from him on these forums. Great knowledge of "authorities", encylopedic even. But not a lot of independent thought there, certainly not enough to qualify him to dole out grades on other people's methods and abilities to form opinions and arguments. Like a non-musician judging a musical talent contest. Like fucking Simon Cowell hahahaha
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #47
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    heh. that was pretty funny.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    uh. no, i'm just killing time while drinking this coffee.
    But so is peguy.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  9. #49
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    But so is peguy.
    *sigh* fine then. i'm an NF all right. whatever you say.
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  10. #50
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Can you explain what thin means to you? You also mentioned that arguments shouldn't rest on logic... Can you clarify?

    (please note: I am not trying to draw you into an argument - I'm genuinely curious)
    No problem. As I stated, this is just from my own perspective, and this is probably related to the different natures of Ne and Ni.

    I'll admit it's rather hard for me to fully explain since I'm short on time and energy at the moment, but there is this thread that deals with the issue in some depth:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ficiality.html

    It's my general impression that the style of ENPs is often best suited to punditry. I don't mean that in any negative sense, despite the negative image punditry has assumed in recent years. The McLaughlin Group is a good example of ENTP-natured discourse IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Seriously tho, Peguy's superior and pompous tone does piss me off too, specially considering that I don't think I've ever seen an original thought from him on these forums. Great knowledge of "authorities", encylopedic even. But not a lot of independent thought there, certainly not enough to qualify him to dole out grades on other people's methods and abilities to form opinions and arguments. Like a non-musician judging a musical talent contest. Like fucking Simon Cowell hahahaha
    That depends on what one considers "original". Let's also take into effect the major subtle nature of my own thinking processes. Whatever authorities I cite, I cite after long and prolonged internal dialogue with their arguments. Not to mention I often put my own unique twist to their conclusions. And so on. But in any case, this thread isn't supposed to be about me but about you ENTPs.

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