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  1. #11
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Not necessarily. It starts as quite serious then the argument gets exausting due to the stupidity and becomes what may be seen as trivialized then assumed by the other as a game. And those assumptions deserve trivialization.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  2. #12
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    i wasn't aware that to find out the role of argumentation for an ENTP was to ask an NF. but, i'm not surprised a few of them would think that.
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  3. #13
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    i wasn't aware that to find out the role of argumentation for an ENTP was to ask an NF. but, i'm not surprised a few of them would think that.
    Yeah yeah I know, cause NTs deal with facts while us NFs are emotional and deal with values.

  4. #14
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yeah yeah I know, cause NTs deal with facts while us NFs are emotional and deal with values.
    I'm not a full E ntp but i'll meet you half way on that.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  5. #15
    Sniffles
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    Well the hilarious thing to me is that while NTs like to tell themselves that, too often in discussions I find them rather lacking in facts and committing logical fallacies one after another. They especially enjoy committing the fallacy of Argumentum ad logicam; which is to dismiss an argument simply because it's not logical.

  6. #16
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I'll take a stab-please dont kill me entps.

    They like to play and win in a fun way, so the argument is a bit of a contest. To one-up the other person, in a fun way of course (at least they think so...)
    In summary I'd say you're half right. Yes, I like to argue and it's fun and both the means and symptom of intimacy for me.

    The half where you're not right is this strange obsession people think ENTP's all have with one-upping or winning, in the bald sense of the words. Just because sometimes I do one-up or win, it doesn't mean it was my sole intention or objective. In reality I couldn't give a shit who "wins" and thoughts of win/lose couldn't be further from my mind when I'm trying to communicate my thoughts to someone. I just want them to be heard and understood and the way I test whether they're understood is by cross-questioning to find out why you disagree with me, if you do.

    In effect, by giving you my mind, I'm giving you me. And I'm asking for yours - I'm saying I want you. When you take that as some egotistical and infantile deliberate point scoring bullshit, it's like the biggest insult ever.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well the hilarious thing to me is that while NTs like to tell themselves that, too often in discussions I find them rather lacking in facts and committing logical fallacies one after another.
    Is that how you feel? ENTP decides from NE. Take a gander at your decision making function.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  8. #18
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yeah that's the problem, it's just a game to them often. They lack an actual point, so all their twisting and whatnot is nothing more than nonsensical sophistry that rarely contributes anything worthwhile to the discussion.

    Sorry if you want me to look at things in a different way, then by all means present an actual point. Don't waste my time with bullshit.
    Kinda like you're doing now?

  9. #19
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yeah yeah I know, cause NTs deal with facts while us NFs are emotional and deal with values.
    You know, I thought she just meant that if you want to know how an ENTP sees something, don't ask an NF cos it's like asking a dog why a cat likes mice.
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  10. #20
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    They especially enjoy committing the fallacy of Argumentum ad logicam; which is to dismiss an argument simply because it's not logical.
    I've been contemplating this lately... and yes, you're right. There are just somethings that can't be explained with logical... Scary part is that.... we know this... and often use this with our own deeply held values.



    I argue to communicate. True back-forth dialogue. It means, I'm listening, and wanting to understand. I MOSTLY argue with those I care about. Arguing takes time, effort, attention... Think about it.

    And yes, the winning thing... so worth it. Those that know me and care about me... will often let me win when I'm just arguing for fun. It's a multifaceted thing.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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