[INTJ] What does an unhealthy INTJ look like?

[Snuggletron]

medusas are worth a lot of experience points

are unhealthy INTJs worth a lot of experience points?

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

medusas are worth a lot of experience points

are unhealthy INTJs worth a lot of experience points?

Probably.

 

[Snuggletron]

Probably.

brb adventuring

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

brb adventuring

Be warned... I am a boss type. Best level up a tad more, lest you get one-shotted.

 

[Snuggletron]

It's ok, my DM was Gary Gygax.

 

[Synapse]

Irrational logic. where the overriding logic is facilitated with irrational thinking to the extreme.

Like my father whose compulsions and ability to brainwash are second to none. For instance for the last year he consistently brainwashed me to think like him. Insisted that putting money in stocks is the way to go. Which would of made sense before the financial instability. Then he goes to great lengths in explaining how it'll get better, I have super foresight, why I predicted the mining boom thats why I wanted to live in Australia and blah blah blah. Which is all very well and good to predict what is going to happen, except he should predict whats in front of his nose first, it would help. Then my question is why didn't he buy mining stocks before they fell out if he's that good.

So then he borrows money and invests. I don't really have any to do so but he was kind enough to get me to give him some that I'm unlikely to see again. And in the end he says, hay you know maybe those 1000+ hours, when I lived with him, I tried to convince you to put money into stocks was an oversight. I'm done with stocks as he cuts his loses after a year, yesterday. Hay, ah, I need a backup, you have enough money to get me out of shit right? I just say yes to put his irrational logic at ease. To do any less would see him get into a panic so profound that, I had been in one too many of those. He needs to feel, rather think he is secure and correct or he goes off.

When he gets into his panic tantrums I tried rational, say okay then if your primary function is logic then how can these mood swings you have be rational. Which calms him down a little but not enough because he then goes on a yelling spree for many hours, days, weeks in some instances of total abuse. You can tell he is sick just by looking at his eyes, they are kind of mad. I tend to think he is bipolar asperger which is related to other things. But then he somehow rubs everyone up the creek innocently.

Which can be an INTJ trait with what I call their truth-sayer syndrome, except my brother is unhealthy too but has rational logic. Tells it like it is but forgets to consider everything else in his single mindedness. Cold, biting, so much so he finds it a kindness when he digs so deep into me that he is doing me a favour by explaining why everything I say is incorrect. But of course he says he would never do it with his friends because then he would have none. He just does it with me because I am family.

Then we had a falling out last year over a barbecue and his supposed ant infestation, which was me being lazy and not taking it back from his place to parents house. But he knew dad wanted it by Christmas anyway, funny how the worst of his antics happened a few weeks before Christmas.

He then wanted to teach me a principle how wrong that was. Which is immature, but then he only likes to emotionally blackmail me. When all he needed to do was ask a friend or dad to help take it back if it bothered him that much.

I say when was the last time he helped me, then he uses the one time he helps me as a precedent, but of course dismisses all the help I've given him as insignificant because he helped me one time. Then he goes I'll never help you ever again, weird considering I stopped asking for help and he asks for help as much as dad. I know I would have taken it back had he asked me to properly. But he did it in such a way, that I refused because it didn't damage his property or cause harm in any way shape or form. Of course me unfriending him on facebook didn't cause a blip for months, all of a sudden it matters because of his public image. When clearly he hardly uses it, neither do I.

Its worse when they both gang up on me, feels like INTJ mental gang rape. hahaha. Am I ever glad I don't have more INTJ family in Australia, and let me tell you back home in Europe, my family tree is littered with them. But I tend to think there is a twisted gene in the family tree.

Every time either of my intj family are around I shouldn't have to put up my guards and feel defensive around them, but I do. I feel uneasy spending time with them because they drain my energy like emotional vampires even though they deal with logic. Satisfied only when my energy is sapped and malleable for their influence on me. They can't comprehend why I don't think like them. That is why my mother deserves getting abused by both of them whenever she opens her mouth, its like a knee jerk reaction now.

Bad!

 

[goodgrief]

Sounds pretty bad. I complain about the lack of help I get from my siblings, particularly my brother, except mine is justified, because he does very little work and uses sparse examples of help, saying he has to do it all the time or every time except he definitely does not. Put forward any rational evidence and he groans and walks off. Most of this is helping out with caring for my dad, who is paralysed from MND. I dunno what type my brother is, probably not INTJ, maybe ISFP? INFP? Not too healthy anyway.

Why am I writing this? Noone cares lol.

 

[simulatedworld]

I'm sure that's true for all types, but there is a huge difference between "impulsive Se-oriented behavior" and blowing someone up.

Well no, most types do not have Se as a tert/inf function, just NJs.

I already agreed INTJs are less likely to resort to terrorism, as they have less of a need for personal interaction than most types.

The point was that Se can lead to some pretty angry outbursts that are very inconsistent with typical INTJ behavior.

 

[spin-1/2-nuclei]

Well no, most types do not have Se as a tert/inf function, just NJs.

I already agreed INTJs are less likely to resort to terrorism, as they have less of a need for personal interaction than most types.

The point was that Se can lead to some pretty angry outbursts that are very inconsistent with typical INTJ behavior.

Semantics aside my point is that I don't believe only INTJs are subject to emotional outbursts. If you're saying only INTJs act angry, emotional, and immature when unhealthy and pushed then I have to disagree. If that's not what you're saying then I apologize.

Either way if only INTJ's are subject to se-dominated-like (or whatever we want to call it) outbursts then most actors, athletes, musicians, and trust fund babies are INTJs... "TO", Naomie Camble, Britney Spears, and Sean Penn would make interesting additions to the INTJ lot imho... although we will have to find interesting ways to explain away some of their other behaviors.

So my only point is that I personally don't see the distinctive line between the unhealthy behaviors of the types as others seem to or to put it more bluntly I believe that there is a lot of overlap with the types since we are all human after all....

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I have tried to interject my next statement into threads similiar to this one. Although thought does lead to action. These types (Myer-Briggs in general) aren't meant to describe action so much as describing the gathering of information. Therefore I would presume that these personality profiles are what these Psychologists saw as logical decisions that each thought processing function would take. So I would say that you are right Spin, but nonetheless the meaning of these types are too detect your preferred processes and the functions of an INTJ may not lend themselves to physical aggression unless unhealthy, so the difference between the 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' INTJ type is physical aggression. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Lex Talionis]

I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. Being introverted does not in any way indicate that you have no "care" for society, as introversion will more than likely fuel your rage, isolating you from humanity. Besides, these people don't kill because they need company, but because of pleasure or rage.

The most misanthropic and cynical individuals I have met online were INTJs. Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."

The classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ: emotionally detached and coldly analytical. Of course, we are discussing "unhealthy" INTJs, and in now way indicting every INTJ. The same force that drives some INTJs to become serial killers and spree shooters drives other INTJs to become world leaders and police officers.

 

[highlander]

I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. Being introverted does not in any way indicate that you have no "care" for society, as introversion will more than likely fuel your rage, isolating you from humanity.

The most misanthropic and cynical individuals I have met online were INTJs. Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."

The classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ: emotionally detached and coldly analytical. Of course, we are discussing "unhealthy" INTJs, and in now way indicting every INTJ. The same force that drives some INTJs to become serial killers and spree shooters drives other INTJs to become world leaders and police officers.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[teslashock]

like this:

 

[Lex Talionis]

What on earth are you talking about?

Exactly what I've typed.

 

[Oaky]

Unhealthy INTJ? It's all in the smiles.

 

[highlander]

Exactly what I've typed.

Ok, I'll be more specific. I think you are leaping to conclusions without enough facts.

I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. Being introverted does not in any way indicate that you have no "care" for society, as introversion will more than likely fuel your rage, isolating you from humanity. Besides, these people don't kill because they need company, but because of pleasure or rage.

How do you know any of these things to be true? What facts do you have to back up your thinking?

The most misanthropic and cynical individuals I have met online were INTJs.

How do you know they are INTJs?

Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."

Are you suggesting they are INTx? or just not extraverted feelers?

I understand Bundy was actually quite charming. That doesn't sound particularly INTJ.

The classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ: emotionally detached and coldly analytical. Of course, we are discussing "unhealthy" INTJs, and in now way indicting every INTJ. The same force that drives some INTJs to become serial killers and spree shooters drives other INTJs to become world leaders and police officers.

I would imagine police officer would be a bit more appealing to an SJ than INTJ. I cannot imagine where you getting "the classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ". The following are some factors of psychopathy. I don't think any of them have anything to do with type.

Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person's psychopathy.[28]

Factor 1
Aggressive narcissism
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor 2
Socially deviant lifestyle
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Lack of realistic, long-term goals
Impulsiveness
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavioral problems
Revocation of conditional release

Traits not correlated with either factor
Many short-term marital relationships
Criminal versatility

 

[highlander]

I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. ....
Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."

"To everyone who met him, John Wayne Gacy seemed a likable and affable man. He was widely respected in the community, charming and easy to get along with. He was a good Catholic and sharp businessman who, when not running his construction company was active in the Jaycees and was also a Democratic Party precinct captain, when he had his photo taken with then First Lady, Rosalynn Carter. He also spent much of his free time hosting elaborate street parties for his friends and neighbors, serving in community groups and entertaining children as "Pogo the Clown". He was a generous, hard working, friendly, devoted family man, everyone knew that -- but that was the side of John Wayne Gacy that he allowed people to see.

Underneath the smiling mask of the clown was the face of depraved fiend"

Now there's an INTJ for you. Always entertaining children as pogo the clown and organizing parties. A likable and affable man.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Ok, I'll be more specific. I think you are leaping to conclusions without enough facts.

Well, first of all, what facts do you have? None. We all have theories in this regard. Only theories. My theories are no less valid, and are in fact far more logical than some of the ridiculous claims I've seen earlier asserting that introverts are simply too "careless" when it comes to society to engage in socially destructive behavior. Introversion may very well exacerbate the problem, resulting in an individual who feels no connection to society, becomes misanthropic due to his natural aversion to people, and develops a nihilistic disposition. This can then very easily result in a smolder that eventually leads to an intense rage at what he considers his own failures and the intransigent society that he cannot relate to. It should also be noted that introversion is a typical characteristic of disorganized asocial serial killers.

I doubt that a study was conducted to test the correlation between INTJs and psychopathy.

How do you know any of these things to be true? What facts do you have to back up your thinking?

Study the lifestyles and behaviors of some of the prominent serial killers, and match their profiles to Myers-Briggs. The INTJ with an unhealthy Fi is a great candidate.

How do you know they are INTJs?

Because I have tested them. However, I can read an individual's personality very well, provided I have enough observation of them. Typing people online is far easier for me than offline. There are characteristics in typing style, reasoning, and even general preferences that help one identify an individual's type without testing them.

Are you suggesting they are INTx? or just not extraverted feelers?

Well, both. Notice that I specifically referred to organized serial killers, who have statistically higher IQs, are very rational, and can "blend" into the social atmosphere, adopting a "mask of sanity." Disorganized serial killers have statistically lower IQs, do not plan, and seem to fit the profile of the INTP; two good examples being Richard Ramirez (i.e. Night Stalker) and Richard Chase.

I understand Bundy was actually quite charming. That doesn't sound particularly INTx.

INTJs can never be charming? I, for one, am extremely introverted, but if I absolutely care to, I can adopt an extroverted demeanor and pass off as an ENTJ or ENTP.

Description of Ted Bundy's social life during his younger years[1]:

Socially, Bundy remained shy and introverted throughout his high school and early college years. He would say later that he "hit a wall" in high school and that he was unable to understand social behavior, stunting his social development. He maintained a facade of social activity, but he had no natural sense of how to get along with other people, saying: "I didn't know what made things tick. I didn't know what made people want to be friends. I didn't know what made people attractive to one another. I didn't know what underlay social interactions."

Dennis Rader, ie. BTK, was described as a reserved family man who was respected by the community.

I would imagine police officer would be a bit more appealing to an SJ than INTJ. I cannot imagine where you getting "the classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ". The following are some factors of psychopathy. I don't think any of them have anything to do with type.

Perhaps not a field officer, but a position in law enforcement or the military. I would suspect that INTJs, like in most leadership positions, are overrepresented in police and military leadership. They are also probably overrepresented in police investigation and amongst FBI special investigative units. After all, the famous sleuth who would become the archetype for the criminal investigator, Sherlock Holmes, was himself an INTJ, albeit a fictional one. Also, serial killers often apply for police positions because of the intensity that comes with the job, which feeds them.

Do I have studies to confirm these hunches? No, but then again, neither do you, nor anybody else. It seems that researchers do not have the funding to conduct such studies, and would probably prefer to allocate the funding they do receive toward more relevant research.

Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person's psychopathy.[28]

Factor 1
Aggressive narcissism
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor 2
Socially deviant lifestyle
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral control
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Lack of realistic, long-term goals
Impulsiveness
Irresponsibility
Juvenile delinquency
Early behavioral problems
Revocation of conditional release

Traits not correlated with either factor
Many short-term marital relationships
Criminal versatility

This is specious. Not only is that a collection of all traits serial killers may exhibit, but those traits are also tied strongly to emotion, and could be present in any unhealthy type. When we're discussing psychopaths, there is little purpose in comparing the definition of "rational" that "normal" people believe to be rational with the "rationale" of serial killers. No amount of reasoning will convince the average individual that murder for sheer pleasure is reasonable.

No, we must instead compare the general characteristics of the type; the functions that channel the behavior, and perhaps more importantly, the functions that are a natural mold for the typical profile of an organized serial killer or mass murderer.



1. Michaud and Aynesworth, The Only Living Witness, p. 64 & 66

 

[Lex Talionis]

"To everyone who met him, John Wayne Gacy seemed a likable and affable man. He was widely respected in the community, charming and easy to get along with. He was a good Catholic and sharp businessman who, when not running his construction company was active in the Jaycees and was also a Democratic Party precinct captain, when he had his photo taken with then First Lady, Rosalynn Carter. He also spent much of his free time hosting elaborate street parties for his friends and neighbors, serving in community groups and entertaining children as "Pogo the Clown". He was a generous, hard working, friendly, devoted family man, everyone knew that -- but that was the side of John Wayne Gacy that he allowed people to see.

Underneath the smiling mask of the clown was the face of depraved fiend"

Now there's an INTJ for you. Always entertaining children as pogo the clown and organizing parties. A likable and affable man.

Gacy threw parties to target victims. This is the classical "mask of sanity."

When people present me with this quote about Gacy, I point out how well it could be embraced by an ENTJ, or an INTJ that has adopted an extroverted demeanor for the time being. As you should know, an ENTJ shares all of the INTJ's functions except for introversion.

Gacy's childhood was also relatively normal, and he was far from the 'life of the party.' Remember that the persona a serial killer adopts when he is around other people is only there to act as a facade. His true self is most definitely detached and concerned only with his private world.

 

[Robopop]

Ok, I'll be more specific. I think you are leaping to conclusions without enough facts.

YES!