[INTJ] What does an unhealthy INTJ look like?

[simulatedworld]

Exactly, because of your twisted perception of extraverted feelers. Those who need people and human warmth and can't get any of it will turn out to be desperate and miserable.

Forget the movie cliches about the evil genius and all this bullshit, I know it's really romantic and tragic and whatnot, but not applicable to real life. ITJs usually do not need the same degree of attachment as other types. They may be quiet and misanthropic, but won't blow your ass up if they hate you, because they don't really fucking care.

this

 

[spin-1/2-nuclei]

Exactly, because of your twisted perception of extraverted feelers. Those who need people and human warmth and can't get any of it will turn out to be desperate and miserable.

Forget the movie cliches about the evil genius and all this bullshit, I know it's really romantic and tragic and whatnot, but not applicable to real life. ITJs usually do not need the same degree of attachment as other types. They may be quiet and misanthropic, but won't blow your ass up if they hate you, because they don't really fucking care.

Agreed. I seriously doubt "unhealthy" INTJs are more likely to become serial killers or shoot up their school or whatever. A healthy INTJ is likely to ignore people they don't like... an unhealthy one - depending on the degree of unhealthiness - is probably more likely to become a hermit than they are to behave violently.

 

[tcda]

Exactly, because of your twisted perception of extraverted feelers. Those who need people and human warmth and can't get any of it will turn out to be desperate and miserable.

I never met someone who "doesn't need people and human warmth". I think 99.9% of people who have no friends and is despised by all around them will hate it, regardless of MBTI type.

The question is, is an INTx more likely to suffer that than an xNFJ? In my experience, yes.

Also the tertiary Fi can lead to strong aspects of moralism and inability to accept "what exists", moreso than an Ni-Ti loop.

But whatever, it's just my experience vs yours I guess. Maybe we had different experiences.

 

[Litvyak]

I never met someone who "doesn't need people and human warmth". I think any person who has no friends and is despised by all around them will hate it, regardless of MBTI type.

Don't quote something I didn't write.
As I said, ITJs do not need "the same degree of attachment" as an EF type. They are less likely to become depressed because they won't get enough - they need to be in a worse situation to "snap" compared to EFs.

The question is, is an INTx more likely to suffer that than an xNFJ? In my experience, yes.

What is your experience? I seriously doubt it's relevance, since I don't think you've managed to gather enough comparable data with INTJs being relatively rare. Being an introvert yourself, you possibly didn't get to know more than two or three of them. Besides, I'd venture a guess that you didn't meet any of the high school butchers. Reading a book about Columbine won't take you close to the minds of the perpetrators.

Also the tertiary Fi can lead to strong aspects of moralism and inability to accept "what exists", moreso than an Ni-Ti loop.

Moralism, yes. Unreality, no. Te has a strong grasp on reality.

But whatever, it's just my experience vs yours I guess.

I don't think so.

 

[simulatedworld]

Agreed. I seriously doubt "unhealthy" INTJs are more likely to become serial killers or shoot up their school or whatever. A healthy INTJ is likely to ignore people they don't like... an unhealthy one - depending on the degree of unhealthiness - is probably more likely to become a hermit than they are to behave violently.

Well, unhealthy INTJs can get wrapped up in some pretty impulsive Se-oriented behavior when they get pissed off. It's not pretty.

 

[spin-1/2-nuclei]

Well, unhealthy INTJs can get wrapped up in some pretty impulsive Se-oriented behavior when they get pissed off. It's not pretty.

I'm sure that's true for all types, but there is a huge difference between "impulsive Se-oriented behavior" and blowing someone up.

 

[tcda]

Don't quote something I didn't write.
As I said, ITJs do not need "the same degree of attachment" as an EF type. They are less likely to become depressed because they won't get enough - they need to be in a worse situation to "snap" compared to EFs.

No you said:

Those who need people and human warmth and can't get any of it will turn out to be desperate and miserable.

Clearly implying a comparison with those "do not need" said variable.

What is your experience? I seriously doubt it's relevance, since I don't think you've managed to gather enough comparable data with INTJs being relatively rare. Being an introvert yourself, you possibly didn't get to know more than two or three of them. Besides, I'd venture a guess that you didn't meet any of the high school butchers. Reading a book about Columbine won't take you close to the minds of the perpetrators.

Actually due to the field of my interest (socialist activism) I met a high number of INTJ's. I worked itnensely alongside two different INTJ's for a year spell each, getting to know them very well. I also know a fair few others through poltiics. I also used to post on INTJ-forums and have posted here for quite a long time.

Regarding extraverted feelers, my brother and mother are such.

Moralism, yes. Unreality, no. Te has a strong grasp on reality.

But an unhealthy type gets stuck in a loop of their dom and tertiary functions. we are talking about unhealthy INTJ's. Likewise a grasp on reality does not mean that mean that Ni-Fi can accept said reality. By which I mean it sees it as an affront, intolerable.

Regarding the high school butchers, perhaps you could tell us what you know then?

Because I am not thinking about emotional people who fell out with a friend and cracked, but regimented, miltiaristic intellectual narcissists who, although very likely subconsciously motivated by intense feelings, in fact consciosuly udnerstood and expressed this as a desire for power and domination over inferior people.

As such they match the worst tendencies, in an extreme and exaggerated form, of the INTJ's I have known IRL and online.

 

[Litvyak]

Clearly implying a comparison with those "do not need" said variable.

I don't really see a clear implication. I've expanded my take on this in the second part of my first post, you seem to be fixated on the phrasing instead of the actual meaning. More need for love = greater emotional vulnerability.

Actually due to the field of my interest (socialist activism) I met a high number of INTJ's. I worked itnensely alongside two different INTJ's for a year spell each, getting to know them very well. I also know a fair few others through poltiics.

Meeting people does not really mean "knowing" them, right?
So you know two of them very well.

I also used to post on INTJ-forums

Those people are not INTJs.

Regarding extraverted feelers, my brother and mother are such.

2.

Regarding the high school butchers, perhaps you could tell us what you know then?

I don't use examples or anecdotes, since neither of us has any real experience on the topic.

But an unhealthy type gets stuck in a loop of their dom and tertiary functions. we are talking about unhealthy INTJ's. Likewise a grasp on reality does not mean that mean that Ni-Fi can accept said reality. By which I mean it sees it as an affront, intolerable.

Ni gives vision, Te gives the ability to hold tight to reality, Fi gives moral support. The vulnerability of Ni-Fi is exaggerated.

Because I am not thinking about emotional people who fell out with a friend and cracked, but regimented, miltiaristic intellectual narcissists who, although very likely subconsciously motivated by intense feelings, in fact consciosuly udnerstood and expressed this as a desire for power and domination over inferior people.

As such they match the worst tendencies, in an extreme and exaggerated form, of the INTJ's I have known IRL and online.

INTJs are not more militaristic than any other thinkers.
Intellectual narcissism does not make you shoot people with a shotgun.
Power and domination won't be achieved through massacres, and Ni knows that.
Deep feelings might just as well be a subconscious motivation for rationalized moral decisions as immoral ones. I could easily see a detested Fe-dom snap, moreso than an INTJ. Their world consists of being with people and for people, and if they lose this possibility, they might do horrible things.
INTJs have their own world - the dangers of nerd revenge fantasies are overrated.

 

[Valiant]

in my experience it can go both ways. either

1.)neurotic and clingy, unable to overcome Ni-FI sensitivity/moralism and subordinate it to Te logic;

or

2.)completely emotionally retarded and dominated in their thinking by abstract logical with no bearing on reality (like libertarianism).



not really.

Seconded. I was going to write, but it was sort of done for me.

 

[tcda]

Meeting people does not really mean "knowing" them, right?

That's a very INTJ way of looking at it.

I didn't say I had "met them" I said I "know them" meaning I've been working continuously with them for 3 years, though not as intensely as the other two.

Those people are not INTJs.

You could be right, there are probably a hell fo a lot of ISTJ's there. Not many extraverted feelers though I am sure you will admit.

Ni gives vision, Te gives the ability to hold tight to reality, Fi gives moral support. The vulnerability of Ni-Fi is exaggerated.

But we are talking about unhealthy INTJs so what is the point in listing what these functions do when developed healthily?

INTJs are not more militaristic than any other thinkers.

Well from my experience, I compeltely disagree. The two INTJ's I was good friends with had some very militaristic tendencies, moreso than other types.

I could easily see a detested Fe-dom snap, moreso than an INTJ.

Yes, but I think the nature of it would be very different. A cold blooded, planned massacre by a set of gun-nuts driven by ideologies of superiority (even if subconsciously motivated by feelings of rejection), is different to the guy who falls into depression and kills his whole family when he lose shis job, or whatever.

INTJs have their own world - the dangers of nerd revenge fantasies are overrated.

I am not arguing it is a high danger. And out of interest then, what do you think an unhealthy INTJ looks like?

 

[goodgrief]

Are you really an enfp? That was the most enfp thing I have ever seen. tcda be careful about the clingy description....it doesnt ring quite true...although maybe Ti/Fe sees it sort of that way...?

(INTJs like touch a lot-inferior Se-but only with very close others, thus cuddly-maybe, but not clingy)

I'd suggest first an unhealthy INTJ would use a shitload of Se and be Se-ish . Then they would progress to a beebe shadow entp state and be Ne-ish to get into mischief and be paranoid.


(Albeit I keep meeting INTJs who are using Ne productively in a transcedent manner...)

Okay, well first, I am not mistyped. I am an INTJ with strong intrversion (probably moderate if anxiety weren't a factor), moderate thinking and intuition and slight judging. This should explain the psychology behind what screwed up thing is going on in my mind with my infatuation over this person, who is awesome.

I don't know that much about the functions yet so I found some resources to help me.

"Introverted Feeling
Deciding if something is of worth or significance, valuing something or someone. Is expressed in the undercurrents of tone or action rather than words or gestures. Protecting one's values, detecting insincerity. Introverted feeling causes us to feel kinship with others whose values and beliefs are like our own. "

This is something I experience a lot, and it's probably over-developed. I am quite concerned with my values and ideals. And this person shares my values and ideals, among other things. I feel very close to my immediate group of friends, who I can relate to well, and at this point, where school has crushed my motivation for anything to do with it, my friends and relationships are of great concern to me. This doesn't make me extraverted or a feeler. It's just Fi and an anxiety-created lack of human contact in general. I spend my non-school time at home on the computer because I am too afraid to ring someone up and ask them to go do something (and yes I do realize the stupidity of this and I hate it). I rarely ever express my feelings either, so not much in the way of Fe. I am very socially clunky with those who do not get me.

"Extraverted Sensing
Experiencing the immediate stimuli. Being active in the physical world, being aware of changes and opportunities, accumulating experience, noticing visible reactions, recognizing “what is”. There is no reflection, but only pure experience. Seeking excitement of the senses. Extraverted sensing is used in the here and now to explore and adapt to the physical world. Examples include eating chocolates, playing an instrument, or reading... strictly for enjoyment."

Unlike the INTP I have fallen for, who seems completely oblivious to many things including my subtle suggestive choice of words and expressions, I often look for signals from the outside world (which I then disect in detail with Ni). I can see that if not hidden, which it almost always is, this could come off as clingy, and since I hide nothing (or very little) to the internet, I would appear clingy. And in response to your 'cuddly' thing, yes, I do like hugs, not so much from fellow males, but from females I am close too, especially this one. But I rarely do hug anyone, as most of the time I am uncomfortable with it, so I have restricted myself from hugging this person, who is less cuddly than me, and it would just be very weird if I did.

And like I said, I also break everything down to understand it using Ni, and I am always organizing information with Te.

 

[Malcontent]

What does an unhealthy INTJ look like?

THIS!

Expecially in the second part of the movie.
Isolated, hateful and brooding toward all people, let's his unhealthy Se violenty come out if provoked too much.

Btw, the type who doesn't give a damn to the world when unheathy is more the INTP, who is the true isolated type disengaged from reality and maybe his own body.
Paradoxically, INTJs mantain usually an internally strong "connection" with people, because their hermit-like existence is about refusing the world because unhealthy Fi condemn it and sometimes make it a dark obsession, seeking isolation and sometimes revenge.

My two cents...
Bye.

 

[Litvyak]

As seen in the evergreen masterpiece "There Will Be Blood" with Daniel Day-Lewis.
My thoughts exactly.

 

[highlander]

Bitter, alone, lonely, angry, sociopathic, misanthropic, megalomaniac.

Duh!

Probably

Well, unhealthy INTJs can get wrapped up in some pretty impulsive Se-oriented behavior

And this

 

[InfiniteIntrigue]

In a bad mood I will:
-Talk down to others.
-Get very snippy and impatient.
-I will ignore that person, choosing to believe they don't exist.
-I'll think a lot of bad things about the person who angered me, but won't let them know, because I feel they'd get a feeling of satisfaction.
-I will shut the world out, preferring to be alone.

 

[Amethyst]

The isolated misanthrope, although they have no hope for mankind whatsoever, don't really mope around about it like an INTP might, but think of the kid in high school where you thought one day he just might shoot everybody if one thing went wrong. That's the guy.

 

[Snuggletron]

the average 4chan user.

 

[JustHer]

the average 4chan user.

 

[ajblaise]

They don't look like anything. Because they don't leave their house.

And the only ones who do leave their homes are serial murderers.... so if you see an unhealthy INTJ, call 911.

 

[A window to the soul]