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  1. #71
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. Being introverted does not in any way indicate that you have no "care" for society, as introversion will more than likely fuel your rage, isolating you from humanity. Besides, these people don't kill because they need company, but because of pleasure or rage.

    The most misanthropic and cynical individuals I have met online were INTJs. Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."

    The classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ: emotionally detached and coldly analytical. Of course, we are discussing "unhealthy" INTJs, and in now way indicting every INTJ. The same force that drives some INTJs to become serial killers and spree shooters drives other INTJs to become world leaders and police officers.
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  2. #72
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. Being introverted does not in any way indicate that you have no "care" for society, as introversion will more than likely fuel your rage, isolating you from humanity.

    The most misanthropic and cynical individuals I have met online were INTJs. Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."

    The classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ: emotionally detached and coldly analytical. Of course, we are discussing "unhealthy" INTJs, and in now way indicting every INTJ. The same force that drives some INTJs to become serial killers and spree shooters drives other INTJs to become world leaders and police officers.
    What on earth are you talking about? :confused:

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  3. #73
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    like this:


  4. #74
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    What on earth are you talking about? :confused:
    Exactly what I've typed.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
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  5. #75
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Unhealthy INTJ? It's all in the smiles.

  6. #76
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Exactly what I've typed.
    Ok, I'll be more specific. I think you are leaping to conclusions without enough facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. Being introverted does not in any way indicate that you have no "care" for society, as introversion will more than likely fuel your rage, isolating you from humanity. Besides, these people don't kill because they need company, but because of pleasure or rage.
    How do you know any of these things to be true? What facts do you have to back up your thinking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    The most misanthropic and cynical individuals I have met online were INTJs.
    How do you know they are INTJs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."
    Are you suggesting they are INTx? or just not extraverted feelers?

    I understand Bundy was actually quite charming. That doesn't sound particularly INTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    The classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ: emotionally detached and coldly analytical. Of course, we are discussing "unhealthy" INTJs, and in now way indicting every INTJ. The same force that drives some INTJs to become serial killers and spree shooters drives other INTJs to become world leaders and police officers.
    I would imagine police officer would be a bit more appealing to an SJ than INTJ. I cannot imagine where you getting "the classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ". The following are some factors of psychopathy. I don't think any of them have anything to do with type.

    Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person's psychopathy.[28]

    Factor 1
    Aggressive narcissism
    Glibness/superficial charm
    Grandiose sense of self-worth
    Pathological lying
    Cunning/manipulative
    Lack of remorse or guilt
    Emotionally shallow
    Callous/lack of empathy
    Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

    Factor 2
    Socially deviant lifestyle
    Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
    Parasitic lifestyle
    Poor behavioral control
    Promiscuous sexual behavior
    Lack of realistic, long-term goals
    Impulsiveness
    Irresponsibility
    Juvenile delinquency
    Early behavioral problems
    Revocation of conditional release

    Traits not correlated with either factor
    Many short-term marital relationships
    Criminal versatility

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  7. #77
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I do believe unhealthy INTJs make up the majority of organized serial killers and a sizable portion of those who contemplate engaging in killing sprees. ....
    Jeffrey Dahmer was not an extroverted feeler, and neither were Gacy, Ridgway, Berkowitz, Bundy, and Panzram. Jeffrey Dahmer's father, who wrote about his son's actions, considers himself to be an "analytical thinker."
    "To everyone who met him, John Wayne Gacy seemed a likable and affable man. He was widely respected in the community, charming and easy to get along with. He was a good Catholic and sharp businessman who, when not running his construction company was active in the Jaycees and was also a Democratic Party precinct captain, when he had his photo taken with then First Lady, Rosalynn Carter. He also spent much of his free time hosting elaborate street parties for his friends and neighbors, serving in community groups and entertaining children as "Pogo the Clown". He was a generous, hard working, friendly, devoted family man, everyone knew that -- but that was the side of John Wayne Gacy that he allowed people to see.

    Underneath the smiling mask of the clown was the face of depraved fiend"

    Now there's an INTJ for you. Always entertaining children as pogo the clown and organizing parties. A likable and affable man.

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  8. #78
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    Ok, I'll be more specific. I think you are leaping to conclusions without enough facts.
    Well, first of all, what facts do you have? None. We all have theories in this regard. Only theories. My theories are no less valid, and are in fact far more logical than some of the ridiculous claims I've seen earlier asserting that introverts are simply too "careless" when it comes to society to engage in socially destructive behavior. Introversion may very well exacerbate the problem, resulting in an individual who feels no connection to society, becomes misanthropic due to his natural aversion to people, and develops a nihilistic disposition. This can then very easily result in a smolder that eventually leads to an intense rage at what he considers his own failures and the intransigent society that he cannot relate to. It should also be noted that introversion is a typical characteristic of disorganized asocial serial killers.

    I doubt that a study was conducted to test the correlation between INTJs and psychopathy.

    How do you know any of these things to be true? What facts do you have to back up your thinking?
    Study the lifestyles and behaviors of some of the prominent serial killers, and match their profiles to Myers-Briggs. The INTJ with an unhealthy Fi is a great candidate.

    How do you know they are INTJs?
    Because I have tested them. However, I can read an individual's personality very well, provided I have enough observation of them. Typing people online is far easier for me than offline. There are characteristics in typing style, reasoning, and even general preferences that help one identify an individual's type without testing them.

    Are you suggesting they are INTx? or just not extraverted feelers?
    Well, both. Notice that I specifically referred to organized serial killers, who have statistically higher IQs, are very rational, and can "blend" into the social atmosphere, adopting a "mask of sanity." Disorganized serial killers have statistically lower IQs, do not plan, and seem to fit the profile of the INTP; two good examples being Richard Ramirez (i.e. Night Stalker) and Richard Chase.

    I understand Bundy was actually quite charming. That doesn't sound particularly INTx.
    INTJs can never be charming? I, for one, am extremely introverted, but if I absolutely care to, I can adopt an extroverted demeanor and pass off as an ENTJ or ENTP.

    Description of Ted Bundy's social life during his younger years[1]:

    Socially, Bundy remained shy and introverted throughout his high school and early college years. He would say later that he "hit a wall" in high school and that he was unable to understand social behavior, stunting his social development. He maintained a facade of social activity, but he had no natural sense of how to get along with other people, saying: "I didn't know what made things tick. I didn't know what made people want to be friends. I didn't know what made people attractive to one another. I didn't know what underlay social interactions."
    Dennis Rader, ie. BTK, was described as a reserved family man who was respected by the community.

    I would imagine police officer would be a bit more appealing to an SJ than INTJ. I cannot imagine where you getting "the classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ". The following are some factors of psychopathy. I don't think any of them have anything to do with type.
    Perhaps not a field officer, but a position in law enforcement or the military. I would suspect that INTJs, like in most leadership positions, are overrepresented in police and military leadership. They are also probably overrepresented in police investigation and amongst FBI special investigative units. After all, the famous sleuth who would become the archetype for the criminal investigator, Sherlock Holmes, was himself an INTJ, albeit a fictional one. Also, serial killers often apply for police positions because of the intensity that comes with the job, which feeds them.

    Do I have studies to confirm these hunches? No, but then again, neither do you, nor anybody else. It seems that researchers do not have the funding to conduct such studies, and would probably prefer to allocate the funding they do receive toward more relevant research.

    Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person's psychopathy.[28]

    Factor 1
    Aggressive narcissism
    Glibness/superficial charm
    Grandiose sense of self-worth
    Pathological lying
    Cunning/manipulative
    Lack of remorse or guilt
    Emotionally shallow
    Callous/lack of empathy
    Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

    Factor 2
    Socially deviant lifestyle
    Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
    Parasitic lifestyle
    Poor behavioral control
    Promiscuous sexual behavior
    Lack of realistic, long-term goals
    Impulsiveness
    Irresponsibility
    Juvenile delinquency
    Early behavioral problems
    Revocation of conditional release

    Traits not correlated with either factor
    Many short-term marital relationships
    Criminal versatility
    This is specious. Not only is that a collection of all traits serial killers may exhibit, but those traits are also tied strongly to emotion, and could be present in any unhealthy type. When we're discussing psychopaths, there is little purpose in comparing the definition of "rational" that "normal" people believe to be rational with the "rationale" of serial killers. No amount of reasoning will convince the average individual that murder for sheer pleasure is reasonable.

    No, we must instead compare the general characteristics of the type; the functions that channel the behavior, and perhaps more importantly, the functions that are a natural mold for the typical profile of an organized serial killer or mass murderer.



    1. Michaud and Aynesworth, The Only Living Witness, p. 64 & 66
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  9. #79
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    "To everyone who met him, John Wayne Gacy seemed a likable and affable man. He was widely respected in the community, charming and easy to get along with. He was a good Catholic and sharp businessman who, when not running his construction company was active in the Jaycees and was also a Democratic Party precinct captain, when he had his photo taken with then First Lady, Rosalynn Carter. He also spent much of his free time hosting elaborate street parties for his friends and neighbors, serving in community groups and entertaining children as "Pogo the Clown". He was a generous, hard working, friendly, devoted family man, everyone knew that -- but that was the side of John Wayne Gacy that he allowed people to see.

    Underneath the smiling mask of the clown was the face of depraved fiend"

    Now there's an INTJ for you. Always entertaining children as pogo the clown and organizing parties. A likable and affable man.
    Gacy threw parties to target victims. This is the classical "mask of sanity."

    When people present me with this quote about Gacy, I point out how well it could be embraced by an ENTJ, or an INTJ that has adopted an extroverted demeanor for the time being. As you should know, an ENTJ shares all of the INTJ's functions except for introversion.

    Gacy's childhood was also relatively normal, and he was far from the 'life of the party.' Remember that the persona a serial killer adopts when he is around other people is only there to act as a facade. His true self is most definitely detached and concerned only with his private world.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  10. #80
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=highlander29;1164754]
    Ok, I'll be more specific. I think you are leaping to conclusions without enough facts.
    YES!

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