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  1. #91
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    ^ a one-minute-too-late "What he said!"

  2. #92
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's because your argument is bad on a rational basis.

    I don't need to prove that it's healthy; the burden of proof is on you to show that it's not. You're the one making an extraordinary claim that I'm somehow defective or "monstrous." You remind me of the religious right whining about how gays can't truly love one another, because that's an abomination! They must know DEEP DOWN IN THEIR HEARTS that they're just lying to themselves!

    If it makes you more comfortable to believe that, knock yourself out.

    But so far you've really offered nothing in support of this position. What exactly is "the same way you know everything else", Fi?

    Oh boy, here comes that "I know you better than you know you" garbage again. Maybe you really are an NF, after all.
    You cheapen your vaunted argumentation with your easy swipes.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #93
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmandahalf View Post
    Or maybe it's that what we're talking about isn't clearly defined or understood, because sexual mores in the past have been defined by either religious conviction or utilitarian social constructs, so in this brave new world of relative social sexual freedom, we're struggling to find meaning. That doesn't mean that Synarch is being illogical. Logic when it comes to issues that involve is always murky, but especially so here, because different rules have been established, but few of them standardized. What he's doing is going off of a hunch, which is how truth is often discovered, when one follows that hunch to its logical ends, as well as any of us are capable of, given that the human brain is inherently limited.

    *exhale*
    Thank you for not knee jerking and getting it twisted.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #94
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    How can we be purely rational / logical about something where we have established no scientific criteria or even scientific definitions? What are emotions? What is intimacy? Can you define these things for me and explain how the mind and body interact? Can you explain what happens in the mind when the skin of one person touches another? What sequences and changes take place? Even if you could, can you establish scientific support for your counter-claim (equally extraordinary) that people can separate emotions from physical intimacy?

    Attention my NT comrades, there are limits to the known, there are limits to the observable, there are limits to logic. When you reach these limits you must go with your instincts and experience. What works. My instincts and experiences dictate what I believe. I am not trying to defend my claims against your standard. I am speaking only to those with ears to listen. Those who my words will resonate with. If you don't see it, then it wasn't meant for you to see.
    No, I can't answer any of those questions definitively at all, and neither can you.

    That was the point. Go with what seems to work for you, but don't assume that the way you feel intuitively on any topic is so fundamental to the human experience that no one else could honestly feel differently without deluding himself. Now that is illogical.

    Note that I didn't say it's illogical for you to feel this way! Just for you to project that feeling onto others and then insist that they don't know their own feelings and experiences when they respond to the contrary.

    And by the way, I meant the NF comment about as seriously as you meant yours that STPs are soulless. I don't doubt that you're ENTP; I was just illustrating the way you seem to have an F-related stance on this one issue.

    Also, can you define "monster"? What exactly do you mean by that here?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #95
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    *jumps in topic*

    What did I miss!

    *jumps back out*

  6. #96
    Senior Member Azseroffs's Avatar
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    Hopefully without getting involved in this argument, I'd like to give my two cents.

    I have been on the flip side of your situation, and I just have to say the most important part of trying to keep it together is by being open and honest. I can't speak for all INTPs, but this is one that always appreciates the truth no matter what it is. I have gotten pissed at people that were just trying to be tactful. It takes a lot of introspecting to know how I feel, especially when it comes to relationships. Just give her time. I don't know about her but I've never been annoyed by someone asking what my thoughts are if it's someone I'm close to. Make sure you word it like that though. "What do you think?" Don't ask "How do you feel?" because then we're just like "umm.. let me get back to you" or more likely "I'm not sure." I'm usually quite straight forward and if someone keeps in contact with me and I lose interest I'll tell them right out.

    Usually though when I lose interest in someone I start unintentionally forgetting about them.(as cold as that sounds) I'll listen to their voice mail and make a note of calling back, but it will slip my mind and eventually it gets to the point where I'm like.."Oh she isn't calling anymore.. I guess it's over" and I usually don't think twice about it. As long as I'm staying in contact, at least on a weekly bases, I'm still interested, but it's very necessary for the other to make an effort to stay in contact with me because if I feel like they are losing interest I won't feel like wasting my time trying to keep things together.

    This is obviously with uncommitted relationships.
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  7. #97
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    That's it - the ambiguity. It's sometimes difficult to be comfortable with it.
    yeah, why are we (enfps) so anti that? you'd think we'd be fine it considering the P open-ended thing.

  8. #98
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    yeah, why are we (enfps) so anti that? you'd think we'd be fine it considering the P open-ended thing.
    Hmm, ambiguity.

    I think-if you have the chance to be in a close, loving relationship with someone-that it will enhance the sexual aspect with a whole other dimension. The softness and fluidity, kisses and touches allow are embedded with extra layers of meaning, like poetry or beautiful prose.

    However, if you are not in a relationship, and do not have the option of entering into one, it doesn't mean you still do not yearn for physical intimacy with another person. You still hunger for sex, touching and tasting even if in a lusty, yummy animal sort of way and can get much pleasure there in pleasing your partner and yourself. Perhaps it is a base need but, even in those few moments that you spend with that person, you can intermingle a bit with thier soul, even if you know you will not see them again ever. A piece of you and they have mixed. You can remember thier touch, taste and scent fondly and remember thier expressions, thier movements, and treasure that little bit of closeness.

    I know this was a thinker aimed thread, but even as a feeler, I think this sort of short term pleasure seeking relationship is fine and even fun. The trick is to understand walking into it what emotional ties and seperations you are making, set your own expectations and boundaries, while understanding your partners' expectations the best that you can.

    (is this gonna get me kicked out of the INTP club?)

  9. #99
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    However, if you are not in a relationship, and do not have the option of entering into one, it doesn't mean you still do not yearn for physical intimacy with another person. You still hunger for sex, touching and tasting even if in a lusty, yummy animal sort of way and can get much pleasure there in pleasing your partner and yourself. Perhaps it is a base need but, even in those few moments that you spend with that person, you can intermingle a bit with thier soul, even if you know you will not see them again ever. A piece of you and they have mixed. You can remember thier touch, taste and scent fondly and remember thier expressions, thier movements, and treasure that little bit of closeness.

    (is this gonna get me kicked out of the INTP club?)
    Puppy, that was very well said and I agree completely. I would never have been able to find the words to express that even though that's what I meant. Thank goodness for feelers. Remain an ENFP, please!!!

  10. #100
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    I know this was a thinker aimed thread, but even as a feeler, I think this sort of short term pleasure seeking relationship is fine and even fun. The trick is to understand walking into it what emotional ties and seperations you are making, set your own expectations and boundaries, while understanding your partners' expectations the best that you can.
    Insight appreciated. I guess we just have to know how INTPs are. Friends know if they text me, I will text them back.. probably seconds later. With INTP, I know that I may not receive a response unless what I said was relevant, important or fascinatingly witty (to him). My expectations are reasonable, so I know not to get crushed at lack of response, but now it's sort of like a game I have to play. Will I fascinate the INTP TODAY?! Will I?!?!

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