[INTP] Baffling argument with INTP

[Wiley45]

Sometimes I have these baffling arguments with my INTP friend. He eventually gets annoyed with me and leaves.

Today it was an argument over the word "stupid." The INTP said that someone is stupid because of an opinion that person holds. (The INTP says this person is being juvenile and forming sweeping opinions that do not make any sense based on the information available.)

I said the person is being stupid, but that we can't say he is stupid. To me, saying a person is stupid means they're 100% stupid, all the time. I think the person is just stupid in this particular case.

My INTP friend says that saying someone is stupid is the same as saying the person is being stupid. In typical fashion, he gave me this link to the dictionary definition of stupid. stupid - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

So, NT's, who do you think is right, and what did I say that was so frustrating?

 

[Costrin]

I agree with you. That INTP friend of yours is being stupid.

 

[nanook]

i agree with your friend. we are ... lets try this again

personally, i am not interested in "all the time", because all the time does not exist. you are thinking descriptive, as if his live was a story in a book and a statement would be a declaration on the back of the book: this is the live of a stupid person. but your intp is possibly thinking more causally, meaning he is centered in the moment and analyzing the whole functionality, that is creating this moment. the moment is a taking a cross section through all of reality, at this moment. its just a fact, that a person who is producing stupidity right now, is stupid, just like the spring is polluting the air with its nasty pollen.

to put it differently: IS is a verb. a happening. a state. it is not a property.
properties are static, thus they do not exist, for someone who is understanding causality, because everything is always changing anyway. static things do not exist. the flow of stupidity is happening. this is truth. properties only exist to a flat descriptive thinking. they are not real. they are just language.

now, that is just me.

maybe your friend is just anally referring to a dictionary because he is being anal

OR, he does not yet understand why he thinks about this, as he thinks, in the way i understand why i think about it the way i think about it







one second ....

oh forgive me my bad language skills, but being stupid is actually just as much an emphasis on the fact that stupidity is to be understood as verb, in the light of the causal eye.

or is this just me?

i mean, "the being" IS being right?

this is why i HATE language. totally contradictory in itself. you can not combine verbs with adjectives in the same sentence universe.

especially adjectives!!

and the nouns. bad evil nouns. especially, since they are hiding from me, each time i need them.


also: I APOLOGIZE if i am sounding harsh somehow, or like "taking sides", which would be silly in such a matter. i am just being passionately in a playful manner, and people here tend to not get my humor ... oh well

 

[ajblaise]

I like to think that we're not as attached to our arguments as other types tend to be. I don't get mad or really annoyed when I argue with friends.

I have a good INFP friend and I think he sometimes interprets me caring more about the issue than I do, while he sometimes gets very involved.

 

[Salomé]

This thread is being stupid.

 

[nanook]

I am being stupid. (But i am having fun)

 

[Zoom]

I would think that unless one has an unsaid or implied half of the sentence (for example, "He is stupid - when he's like this."), that the generic statement of "is _______" technically means all the time. It has no given endpoint, or instance, or beginning, so if taken as is it is describing the person.

Using the phrasing "is being _____" is referring to right now, I believe.

I consider you to be right, though the argument seems overly focussed on semantics. Colloquial uses of phrasings and verbs mildly change the meanings, at times, though not if you look at them from a technical, grammatical point of view.

 

[Wiley45]

I like to think that we're not as attached to our arguments as other types tend to be. I don't get mad or really annoyed when I argue with friends.

I have a good INFP friend and I think he sometimes interprets me caring more about the issue than I do, while he sometimes gets very involved.

I don't take it personally when I disagree with friends, either, but if the friend stops talking to me because I'm not doing a good job of rational thinking, then I take it personally and get frustrated with myself. I'm trying hard to be better at rational thinking, and a lot of times in conversation my NT friends get frustrated with me. That's why I posted this thread, silly as the actual argument is, because I wondered if i was making some kind of glaring error, and couldn't understand what was frustrating the INTP.

To me as an INFP, it's important to make a distinction between stupid and being stupid, because I think everyone has potential in some area or another. Apparently that type of thing wouldn't matter so much to an INTP. Proving a point with the dictionary does, though.

 

[Costrin]

To me as an INFP, it's important to make a distinction between stupid and being stupid, because I think everyone has potential in some area or another. Apparently that type of thing wouldn't matter so much to an INTP. Proving a point with the dictionary does, though.

Pffft. I agree with you on that distinction. And I disagree with the dictionary all the time. I'm always right too.

 

[Lasting_Pain]

Sometimes I have these baffling arguments with my INTP friend. He eventually gets annoyed with me and leaves.

Today it was an argument over the word "stupid." INTP said that someone is stupid because of an opinion that person holds. (The INTP says this person is being juvenile and forming sweeping opinions that do not make any sense based on the information available.)

I said the person is being stupid, but that we can't say he is stupid. To me, saying a person is stupid means they're 100% stupid, all the time. I think the person is just stupid in this particular case.

My INTP friend says that saying someone is stupid is the same as saying the person is being stupid. In typical fashion, he gave me this link to the dictionary definition of stupid. stupid - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

If the person has a repeated tendency of being stupid, then it should be concluded that he is stupid, until he can prove otherwise.

 

[Wiley45]

I consider you to be right, though the argument seems overly focussed on semantics. Colloquial uses of phrasings and verbs mildly change the meanings, at times, though not if you look at them from a technical, grammatical point of view.

This is one of the reasons my friend gets annoyed with me - semantics. He is always throwing that term around and saying that my arguments don't count because they're just semantics. How do I improve this problem? Just try to focus less on getting into the fine details of what words mean to individuals?

My apologies to those who are annoyed by this thread, because I know it's a little trivial, but I'm trying very hard to learn how to argue intelligently and be better at talking with thinking types. I've learned a lot about logical fallacies, etc. and have learned not to make emotional appeals or talk in circles, but sometimes I still frustrate NT's and get a little baffled as to what I said that was incorrect or poor arguing.

 

[Lasting_Pain]

Actually after contemplating on the matter being stupid and is stupid can be one in the same. Both are accounting for the state of time.

 

[Wiley45]

Pffft. I agree with you on that distinction. And I disagree with the dictionary all the time. I'm always right too.

You agree with me, so you must be right.

 

[JAVO]

Sometimes I have these baffling arguments with my INTP friend.

Well, imagine that!

 

[Lasting_Pain]

Well, imagine that!

Yeah, INTPs love to have arguments. Especially pointless arguments.

 

[Costrin]

Yeah, INTPs love to have arguments. Especially pointless arguments.

No we don't.

 

[93JC]

Yes we do.

 

[Costrin]

Yes we do.

No we don't and your stupid.

 

[Totenkindly]

No we don't and your stupid.

And you can't punctuate.

Today it was an argument over the word "stupid." The INTP said that someone is stupid because of an opinion that person holds. (The INTP says this person is being juvenile and forming sweeping opinions that do not make any sense based on the information available.)

I said the person is being stupid, but that we can't say he is stupid. To me, saying a person is stupid means they're 100% stupid, all the time. I think the person is just stupid in this particular case.

My INTP friend says that saying someone is stupid is the same as saying the person is being stupid.

So, NT's, who do you think is right, and what did I say that was so frustrating?

*rofl*

I think the argument's sort of stupid, and your friend sounds like he's going through typical immature INTP hair-splitting in social situations where his views are being challenged unexpectedly and so he responds in pseudo-rational fashion so that he won't feel like he lost face.

However, he could also think that you are hair-splitting. The deal here: He was upset, his intellectual sensibilities were offended by what this other person had done, and so he was emotionally venting (although it sounded like a rational judgment, because that's how emotions get expressed)... and instead of taking it in that vein, you started hair-splitting with him. (I'm guessing his criticalness irritates you, and so you sort of starting splitting hairs with him as your own way to vent, even if you didn't quite think of it that way.)

This frustrated him even more, and since he had already started this emotional cycle under the guise of pseudo-rationality, and you had followed it up that way in how you challenged him, he now was stuck responding intellectually (while actually just being exasperated) and then got pissed and left.

Next time, if you want to give him what he REALLY wants, you should say something more along the lines of, "It sounds like this person really upset you by how they approached this issue," or some other sort of confirmation of how he's feeling. Or not. Yeah, he might irk you by his complaints and judgments, but if he's your friend, maybe a different approach would be more suitable.

 

[93JC]

No we don't and your stupid.

Yes we do, and you're stupider than I am.