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  1. #31
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    All of the above, but with two BIG reservations:
    1) I actively seek opportunities appearing risky, with methods available to reduce or eliminate said risk.
    2) I like order more than chaos, but the order doesn't have to be in any particular level.. it can be on my mind, exist in practice.. it can be procedural order, order of knowledge, etc.. but yeah, I would seem chaos averse for most people.

    I do make schedules, and I find them handy. I don't make them for everything, and I keep it flexible enough, so I guess following schedules makes the least sense to me of the items above, although it's usually part of my day. Perhaps 40%.

    I put efficiency at greater value than being chaos averse, risk averse, scheduling or following schedules.
    what is efficiency?
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  2. #32
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    my take:

    the combination of te and ni likes to be creative about increasing efficiency, which means, it will be inefficient by objective means, while indulging in this creativity. examples for TeNi could be bodybuilding/jogging (optimizing fitness), examples for NiTe could be programming shell extentins/tools/scripts, or organizing the startmenu for beginners. ie both a wast of time. (gotta love it)

    efficiency is a process, thus it's a matter of the taste of introverted or extroverted intuition (cause intuition smells process). Te/i is modulating this taste a bit. hard to draw the line.

    what Ne people like to do (observed in FiNe), is to abuse the history of the address bar drop-down of a browser as means of going to known internet sites. or googling for the same site again and again.

    is dominante Te the same in this regard, as Ne (being all extroverted)?

    i'll say Ni is different. (not that i don't appreciate a good dropdown - it includes my bookmarks!)

    address-bar history does not have to be created which is effective in short run but it will be lost which is ineffective in long run. bookmarks are ineffective to create, but effective in the long run.

    i think, Ni likes the long run efficiency.
    Ne likes the short run efficiency.

    might be the same for S

    ..... problem with this example: might be gender specific more than I/E specific


    ---



    maybe TeSi likes to create efficiency by purifying tradition.

    tradition=S (obvious)
    ideology=N (because its the inspiring spirit - so this is how i define the word ideology)

    NiTe wants to invent efficient tradition creative ideology, emphasis on creative.

    (the idea of "efficiency" of ideology is about it's everyday stability, not about a quick arriving at it's evolutionary perfection. the invention of ideology can be a very looong term goal, for Ni )

    maybe TeNi is especially interested in purifying creative ideology, for (every day) efficiency. emphasis on purified (Te)

  3. #33
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    what is efficiency?
    I'm thinking of Value of output / value of input.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #34

  5. #35
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I suppose what I'm getting at is does Te see the world as so fundamentally simple and stable that trying to control it often seems like the most reasonable course of action. Maybe its a chicken or the egg kind of thing.

    Whereas Ti might view the world as so complex and dynamic that attempts at controlling it seem useless and it would prefer to understand individual threads within the system than impose on it.

    I'm not talking in absolutes here just that one might lean one way rather than the other.
    In my case, it's more cynical, there is no way of defining the chaos of possibilities that make up our perception of things, so we might as well focus on working with what seems to be available and whip it into the shape that we desire. Te is a band-aid for the stuff Ni shows us, it is our means of getting by, but we are not deluded as to what its limitations are, which is something a lot of judging dominant types seem to lack.

    Knowing myself now, I am not surprised that there aren't as many INTJ philosophers and that Nietzsche is our big guy in that department...I do not have the desire to flesh out things completely and look for a Truth- it seems futile and naive to me in light of what Ni gives me...when I get caught in it, I drive myself mad because of the sheer expanse of what I try to encompass. So what is left to me is to turn to the immediate and reality to get some form of guidance. It is not controlling the simple, it is controlling the gates of hades in order to retain some form of sanity. Te is not a perceiving function after all.

    Ti is hopeful, it seems to believe in the possibility of an answer, in figuring out the complex system (in doing so, it self-limits). Ultimate order, or at least the search for it is something you will more readily find in the Ti camp. I wonder if this answer notion figures prominently in how you approach a problem, though.

    It may be the prominence of the conscious desire for answer that paralyses us in combination with Ni. Or at least me.

  6. #36
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    As I have already said in previous threads, the main difference seems to be control.
    Te is all about controlling your environment, while Ti is rather about figuring how it really works.

    Every -xNTJs I have crossed so far are obsessed about controlling, either themselves, others, or preferably both. Mastery and domination. That's why unhealthy -xNTJs can often develop paranoid traits.
    I very much agree with this. Even when I try and use my puny Te, it likes to control things and impose order on them.

  7. #37
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    In my case, it's more cynical, there is no way of defining the chaos of possibilities that make up our perception of things, so we might as well focus on working with what seems to be available and whip it into the shape that we desire. Te is a band-aid for the stuff Ni shows us, it is our means of getting by, but we are not deluded as to what its limitations are, which is something a lot of judging dominant types seem to lack.

    Knowing myself now, I am not surprised that there aren't as many INTJ philosophers and that Nietzsche is our big guy in that department...I do not have the desire to flesh out things completely and look for a Truth- it seems futile and naive to me in light of what Ni gives me...when I get caught in it, I drive myself mad because of the sheer expanse of what I try to encompass. So what is left to me is to turn to the immediate and reality to get some form of guidance. It is not controlling the simple, it is controlling the gates of hades in order to retain some form of sanity. Te is not a perceiving function after all.


    I'm a little embarrassed by the Nietzsche thing too.

    Minor variation on what you wrote: I don't want to say that in looking to reality and the immediate, I am looking for guidance, but every time I tried to spell out what I mean, it ended up saying I turned to reality, or more exactly, the deeper realities, as governor of anything that would come next.

    (Still resisting the idea that I'm guided tho... keep wanting to say I discover, and the discovery makes it real. Go Team Hubris.)

  8. #38
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    I'm not embarrassed by it, it is our natural mode to hammer things apart, however, what saddens me is that I see myself repeating that mode all the time - it's starting to become boring.

    Guidance may be the wrong term. I'm not actively looking for guidance in them, but I find that they structure my life. The influence of this structure being more or less present reaches far. I have been underusing Te for a while now and it is no use at all fighting your natural inclination (although I was not actively fighting it as much as circumstances and evolution made Ni and Fi come to the foreground more). I will always be significantly more Ni than Te (especially after this period of strenghtening it so much), but I'm looking forward to getting back to a more structured environment. I have literally no self-discipline, I will accept external factors imposing it on me, but I won't do it to myself. It puts a stop to Ni meandering, which is a bittersweet thought, but I think I'll be happier with at least some more Te influence. I would like to turn to the arts more than to theory when it comes to Ni anyway.

  9. #39
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    I have been hearing alot of rumors about Te and world domination. How is that possible.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  10. #40
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    Te compartmentalizes knowledge and information to areas of usefulness and efficiency.

    Ti considers all knowledge and information in seeking truths.

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