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  1. #21
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Can be likened to:

    Te- bottom-up cognitive processing
    Ti - top-down cognitive processing

    *What the heck are those?
    Top-Down and Bottom-Up Processing | in Chapter 07: Cognition | from Psychology: An Introduction by Russ Dewey

  2. #22
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Organizing
    contingency planning
    risk averse
    scheduling
    put life and events into order
    following schedules
    goal setting
    put life into order
    chaos averse
    All of the above, but with two BIG reservations:
    1) I actively seek opportunities appearing risky, with methods available to reduce or eliminate said risk.
    2) I like order more than chaos, but the order doesn't have to be in any particular level.. it can be on my mind, exist in practice.. it can be procedural order, order of knowledge, etc.. but yeah, I would seem chaos averse for most people.

    I do make schedules, and I find them handy. I don't make them for everything, and I keep it flexible enough, so I guess following schedules makes the least sense to me of the items above, although it's usually part of my day. Perhaps 40%.

    I put efficiency at greater value than being chaos averse, risk averse, scheduling or following schedules.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #23
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Can be likened to:

    Te- bottom-up cognitive processing
    Ti - top-down cognitive processing

    *What the heck are those?
    Top-Down and Bottom-Up Processing | in Chapter 07: Cognition | from Psychology: An Introduction by Russ Dewey
    I think I would swap these. The logic I manage to pull off is always top-down. It seems true to a top level concenptual model, and I dig for supporting data rather than building upwards. (could be Ne though)

  4. #24
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Te: gets girls
    Ti: masturbates in his room
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #25
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Can be likened to:

    Te- bottom-up cognitive processing
    Ti - top-down cognitive processing

    *What the heck are those?
    Top-Down and Bottom-Up Processing | in Chapter 07: Cognition | from Psychology: An Introduction by Russ Dewey
    Disagrees

    Judgmental processes aren't really top down nor bottom up. You're looking more at the difference between S and N.

    INTJ uses a top-down approach for problem solving.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  6. #26
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    This is probably a good place to put some thoughts I've had lately, is it right to say that Ti deals with chaos a lot better than Te, what I mean is Te reduces complexity (or disregards its existence) and by doing that allows or encourages the Te user to make long term plans. Does Te generally see existence as ultimately simple and stable (and therefore able to be planned and controlled easily), and the Ti user generally sees existence as ultimately complex and dynamic (and therefore hard to plan and control easily).

    I have Ian Malcolm vs John Hammond from Jurassic Park in mind.
    As I have already said in previous threads, the main difference seems to be control.
    Te is all about controlling your environment, while Ti is rather about figuring how it really works.

    Every -xNTJs I have crossed so far are obsessed about controlling, either themselves, others, or preferably both. Mastery and domination. That's why unhealthy -xNTJs can often develop paranoid traits.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #27
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    As I have already said in previous threads, the main difference seems to be control.
    Te is all about controlling your environment, while Ti is rather about figuring how it really works.

    Every -xNTJs I have crossed so far are obsessed about controlling, either themselves, others, or preferably both. Mastery and domination. That's why unhealthy -xNTJs can often develop paranoid traits.
    I suppose what I'm getting at is does Te see the world as so fundamentally simple and stable that trying to control it often seems like the most reasonable course of action. Maybe its a chicken or the egg kind of thing.

    Whereas Ti might view the world as so complex and dynamic that attempts at controlling it seem useless and it would prefer to understand individual threads within the system than impose on it.

    I'm not talking in absolutes here just that one might lean one way rather than the other.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  8. #28
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    As I have already said in previous threads, the main difference seems to be control.
    Te is all about controlling your environment, while Ti is rather about figuring how it really works.

    Every -xNTJs I have crossed so far are obsessed about controlling, either themselves, others, or preferably both. Mastery and domination. That's why unhealthy -xNTJs can often develop paranoid traits.
    *nods*

    INTJ - mastery of self, to some extent others
    ENTJ - mastery of the environment/group
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  9. #29
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I think I would swap these. The logic I manage to pull off is always top-down. It seems true to a top level concenptual model, and I dig for supporting data rather than building upwards. (could be Ne though)
    I think it could be Ne. For my reasoning of the labels: Top-down processes need not always have external data, it's the big picture, the grand scheme which gets widdled down to little pieces to support the big picture, while bottom-up relies on a given data, an external, to build on it, to create the greater picture. Since, we cannot parse out exactly one single function, and leave behind its influences of others (like Ne), it may be hard to guage how exactly Ti or Te is worked, in isolation, in someone. Hence, me saying, 'likened to'...as we cannot know exactly how 'thinking' works in isolation in each of us, without any nod to the other fuctions we utilize to build, and/or, break, T.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Disagrees

    Judgmental processes aren't really top down nor bottom up. You're looking more at the difference between S and N.
    INTJ uses a top-down approach for problem solving.
    I agree with the bolded, as I think a whole cognitive processing system must be called forth in order for a true labelling of top-down versus bottom-up. I.e., how it works in a person in conjunction with all their functions.

    This is the very same reason why I reject your underlined assumption. I don't really understand the logic behind perceiving versus judging processes with regards to why the top-down/bottom-up would only apply to perceiving, as judging processes also has a part to play in 'processing information'? Would love to hear your thoughts.
    Cognitive processes are just that, processes of thought (which often times leads to a conclusion...a judgement). Unless you reject that there's a processing that goes on with T.

    As I said to happy puppy, I don't think a single function can be described in isolation (which is why I would more agree with your INTJ point)...hence the 'likened to'.

  10. #30
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    This is the very same reason why I reject your underlined assumption. I don't really understand the logic behind perceiving versus judging processes with regards to why the top-down/bottom-up would only apply to perceiving, as judging processes also has a part to play in 'processing information'? Would love to hear your thoughts.
    Cognitive processes are just that, processes of thought (which often times leads to a conclusion...a judgement). Unless you reject that there's a processing that goes on with T.

    As I said to happy puppy, I don't think a single function can be described in isolation (which is why I would more agree with your INTJ point)...hence the 'likened to'.
    Yes, no single function is used in isolation. What I meant by top down being more N and bottom up being more S is in their definition. N is defined as top down aka "big picture" person. Whereas S is defined as bottom up aka "detail orientated".
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

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