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  1. #11
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleph-One View Post
    If you're up for anecdotal evidence, I'm usually the first person to be accused of the dread duo of materialism and reductionism.

    But, hell, if I can affect a description of a system which captures all of its behaviors and explains them in terms of only the interactions between that system's constituent parts, then the onus is on the pious little holist to come up with a darn good argument why that description is "too reductionistic". If such a description is given and stands up to experiment, then the proof that the complicated behavior came from an ensemble of simple interactions is in the pudding. My delicious radical empiricism pudding.
    according to daniel dennet there is greedy reductionism and 'good' reductionism

    good reductionism uses a 'crane' ie: you reduce temperature to the kinetic interaction of molecules, but dont deny the phenomenoa of 'temperature'.

    bad reductionism uses a 'sky hook' ie: you reduce temperature to the kinetic interaction of molecules, but deny the existance of 'temperature' (thus you view temperature as a sky hook building from nothing).


    and yes, i tend to notice that TJs are much more reductionist/materialist in their descriptions of systems. The NPs seem to be open to reductionism too, but only after hours of debate and concessions (this is probably why NPs are more open to 'new scientific discoveries' that go against conventional thought than the TJs are)

  2. #12
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    That's a helpful distinction to draw, particularly since many people are accused of being proponents of a sky hook interpretation of things when they are really talking about cranes. And that's a strawman, whether one cares to reduce him to an anthropomorphic bag of canvas stuffed with dried grass or not.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

  3. #13
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    This is probably a good place to put some thoughts I've had lately, is it right to say that Ti deals with chaos a lot better than Te, what I mean is Te reduces complexity (or disregards its existence) and by doing that allows or encourages the Te user to make long term plans. Does Te generally see existence as ultimately simple and stable (and therefore able to be planned and controlled easily), and the Ti user generally sees existence as ultimately complex and dynamic (and therefore hard to plan and control easily).
    Nup, I wouldn't say existence is simple or stable. I would say that I'm content to simplify what I say about why something is true. That's either a result of relying on Ni or a result of Te itself slimming expression down for efficiency. That's about all I know to say. Trying to make a difference between Te and Ti is mysterious to me beyond having made this joke:

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Te: for saying things that make people go "eww!"

    You have Ne/Ti for that.


    Te is a "Too much information!' kind of eww. Ne/Ti is "You're just making that up!"
    WTH I don't get it.

    what if things don't work out as planned, then what you do?
    Well, see, NTJs tend to consider everything "out there" to be fair game for chat. If it's not part of their inner-focused psychology, then it's "out there" and they can talk about it, especially if it's part of some kind of physical system. That's to say, they don't just focus on thinking about stuff outside themselves, they extrovert that thinking: they say stuff. And other people say, "Eww, what? No, I didn't want to know about your itch, thanks so much!"

    But what NTJs tend to blurt out also tends to be true, probably because it's a product of Te, and doing whatever the hell Te does to promote true/false distinctions outside the inner-focused parts of the person. Seems like STJs do this too.

    Illuminating? Probably not.


    Maybe the best I can come up with is a recent thought that where Ti is basically solipsistic and follows truth connections from one conclusion to the next, Te claims conclusions rooted in a (probably) acknowledged physical reality.


    But I may have just made that up.

  4. #14
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    The basic difference between Te and Ti is that Te is logic based on certainty and Ti is logic based on uncertainty. Kind of what Evan already said.

    Except I'm pretty sure this thread isn't about the differences between the two systems, so let's keep Ti out of this for now in case of our Te list.

  5. #15
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Well, for what it's worth, I was talking to a really smart kid the other day and trying to work out if she was INTJ or INTP. The INT is fairly clear, so I asked her, "Do you know something's true and try to prove it, or do you follow thoughts until you find out everything?' She said, "the former." I figured that suggested INTJ.

    To take Ni out of the question "What is Te?" we need some STJs to comment.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    please feel free to add more
    Management (of people or operations)

  7. #17
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Te: Logic with the supporting framework of empirical established fact, relevance, effiency.
    Ti: Logic with the supporting framework of knowledge and underlying principles, aswell as in/conclusive constructs.

    basically Ti is pure knowledge based.. while Te is only concerned with relevant empirical knowledge. Ti supports Te by building the methodology and facts for Te.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  8. #18
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    "Te is the web, Ti is connecting the web with other webs." - Lemons

    xD

  9. #19
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    Te: Military Tank
    Ti: Dentist's Drill

  10. #20
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Te: Military Tank
    Ti: Dentist's Drill
    I disagree. It's more like

    Te: Sniper rifle
    Ti: Shotgun

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