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  1. #31
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Ah. You know, what's funny is... I can't even see why mine would be shallow. I can see how other people's would be, but not mine. If people really do instinctively value different things (like some valuing the mind and some the body), then it's not bad to me. It works fine. But if everyone is inherently drawn to the same things regardless of what kind of person they are or how they think, that's kind of disgusting. It's hard to explain why.
    I don't find it disgusting to like what you like, as long as you are not false about it. Not everyone needs a witty wife. Maybe a man is not that intelligent himself. Maybe he just needs a wife that can cook well, everything else be damned. Who cares? I don't find that shallow, I find it honest about wanting your life to be a certain way and taking the steps to make that happen. It's honest.

    I was head over heels for a professor of mine. All the girls loved him, even some of the boys, I suspect. He was in a horrible car accident and lost his ability to express himself. Mentally, he was a 2 year old. Physically able enough to move around though. Well, his wife left him. Is that really til death do us part? It's always shallow if you love as long as it's convenient to do so, imho. Everything else is fair game.

  2. #32
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I was head over heels for a professor of mine. All the girls loved him, even some of the boys, I suspect. He was in a horrible car accident and lost his ability to express himself. Mentally, he was a 2 year old. Physically able enough to move around though. Well, his wife left him. Is that really til death do us part? It's always shallow if you love as long as it's convenient to do so, imho. Everything else is fair game.
    This got me thinking about something that happened to an aquintance of my dad. Heh, this happened before I was born but this is how the story was told to me.

    My dad is a member of the round table and one of its members used to have a disability that made him very dependant on his wife and all. And it was pretty sad. So the members of the branch of the round table he was part off all chipped in so he could get some expensive surgery in Switzerland that could cure him of his liability. (Can't remember what it was exactly what he had, would need to ask my dad.) Anyhow, they payed for the expensive surgery and it was a success. He could do the things he wanted again.

    Within a few months he dumped his wife and went on with his life messing about with one woman after another.

    So, for some relationships, disabilities is what keeps them together, not tear them apart. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't find it disgusting to like what you like, as long as you are not false about it. Not everyone needs a witty wife. Maybe a man is not that intelligent himself. Maybe he just needs a wife that can cook well, everything else be damned. Who cares? I don't find that shallow, I find it honest about wanting your life to be a certain way and taking the steps to make that happen. It's honest.
    People who are openly materialistic/vain being drawn to other people who are openly materialistic/vain is one thing. That's acceptable to me. What bothers me is the notion that everyone is inherently attracted to the same things, regardless of their personal thoughts, feelings, or personality. I would also be bothered by the consequent idea that people who don't really like things that are materialistic/vain are thus forced to act because of pressure (against their will) as if they value those things even when they don't.
    I was head over heels for a professor of mine. All the girls loved him, even some of the boys, I suspect. He was in a horrible car accident and lost his ability to express himself. Mentally, he was a 2 year old. Physically able enough to move around though. Well, his wife left him. Is that really til death do us part? It's always shallow if you love as long as it's convenient to do so, imho. Everything else is fair game.
    Ah. I see. I guess shallow behavior isn't what bothers me, then. Just people who value the physical nature over the mental and emotional nature. Well, not even that. The idea that everyone is inherently forced to value the physical nature over the mental and emotional in such situations, regardless of their own thoughts or feelings.

  4. #34
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    So, for some relationships, disabilities is what keeps them together, not tear them apart. :P
    Hahaha, I know... it definitely works both ways!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Ah. I see. I guess shallow behavior isn't what bothers me, then. Just people who value the physical nature over the mental and emotional nature. Well, not even that. The idea that everyone is inherently forced to value the physical nature over the mental and emotional in such situations, regardless of their own thoughts or feelings.
    Yeah, ok. You value thoughts and feelings over the physical. I get that, and in my personal life, I also agree with that. I never feel forced to like anything, although I can understand how some people are brainwashed to like something. All the images that we see on a daily basis are just standards and ideals that most can't compete with on a physical plane. Intelligence and kindness are often underrated traits in our culture. Such a pity. I'm with you on the thoughts and *cough* some feelings...

  5. #35
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Yeah, ok. You value thoughts and feelings over the physical. I get that, and in my personal life, I also agree with that. I never feel forced to like anything, although I can understand how some people are brainwashed to like something. All the images that we see on a daily basis are just standards and ideals that most can't compete with on a physical plane. Intelligence and kindness are often underrated traits in our culture. Such a pity. I'm with you on the thoughts and *cough* some feelings...
    Ah, interesting. I never feel forced to like anything either, but I hear other people say they are, and claim it's because of instincts (although they might just be making excuses to do something they actually do want to do without being judged). But the other possibility you bring up is interesting... that it's because of culture or imprinted standards rather than instinct. It's kind of hard to separate that out, so I guess no one really knows for sure which case is which.

    And then there are more questions... does everyone have exactly the same instincts? Do some people have stronger ones than others? And how much can instincts be affected by culture? It looks like there's a lot of potential for complexity here.

  6. #36
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Ah, interesting. I never feel forced to like anything either, but I hear other people say they are, and claim it's because of instincts (although they might just be making excuses to do something they actually do want to do without being judged). But the other possibility you bring up is interesting... that it's because of culture or imprinted standards rather than instinct. It's kind of hard to separate that out, so I guess no one really knows for sure which case is which.

    And then there are more questions... does everyone have exactly the same instincts? Do some people have stronger ones than others? And how much can instincts be affected by culture? It looks like there's a lot of potential for complexity here.
    I think everything on this planet is affected by your culture - even the concept of good and evil. There are some cultures that value large women because it appears that they can cook well. There are cultures that value large men because it appears that they can provide well. There are cultures where a man can grab any woman's breast, but touching her hair is taboo...

    But regarding, the OP it all comes down to procreating and selecting the best genetic traits that you want in your offspring, and choosing the best mate to care/provide for your offspring. It's innate and none of it is 'wrong'.

    We cannot transcend the beasts that we are.

  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I think everything on this planet is affected by your culture - even the concept of good and evil. There are some cultures that value large women because it appears that they can cook well. There are cultures that value large men because it appears that they can provide well. There are cultures where a man can grab any woman's breast, but touching her hair is taboo...
    It looks like we agree here...
    But regarding, the OP it all comes down to procreating and selecting the best genetic traits that you want in your offspring, and choosing the best mate to care/provide for your offspring. It's innate and none of it is 'wrong'.

    We cannot transcend the beasts that we are.
    But now it looks like you went back and reaffirmed that everyone has the same innate traits without variation, regardless of how they think or feel?

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lethal Sage's Avatar
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    Too bad it's too late to become a eunuch, but there's always castration.
    ...

  9. #39
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    But now it looks like you went back and reaffirmed that everyone has the same innate traits without variation, regardless of how they think or feel?
    What I mean to say is the actual values that we find attractive differ from culture to culture (through customs, brainwashing, etc...) but the end result is all the same. You value x and I value y because we want to get laid and we want our offspring to be a certain way and maintain a certain lifestyle. That particular lifestyle that we desire for our offspring, is the one in which our parents instilled in us - and this is where the values come in.

  10. #40
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    What I mean to say is the actual values that we find attractive differ from culture to culture (through customs, brainwashing, etc...) but the end result is all the same. You value x and I value y because we want to get laid and we want our offspring to be a certain way and maintain a certain lifestyle. That particular lifestyle that we desire for our offspring, is the one in which our parents instilled in us - and this is where the values come in.
    Ah, okay. Now I think I get it. That's not as bad, then. It sounds like there's more room in that for individual differences and personalities.

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