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  1. #111
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It's not that the world hates INTPs, it just doesn't understand them.

    Also, unbalanced INTPs seem to react to 'rejection' from the world with cynicism, critiscism, frustration and a rebellious attitude that's rarely productive. Though all people feel like this at some point, I'm sure, it's when it continues for long periods of times that it's really unhealthy. They often also do not realize that they're the ones causing their own pain and tend to blame everyone else using their sharp analyzing capacities. Judgementalism, unattainable standards and resentment are usually next which pushes people even further away. And denial. My god, the mindboggling denial some of them suffer from. It's too bad really, as some of them are really great people beneath all of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I don't think any of that is unique to INTPs. Or am I in denial? :rolli:

    I love them and I love me. What else matters?
    I actually find people like me a good deal more than I like them, or can tolerate. Sometimes this frustrates them. *shrug*

    As for caring, I care at least as much as anyone else, just about different things.
    The bolded part shows that I did mention that this is not exclusive to INTPs, though it appears to be more often found in INTPs from what I've seen.
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  2. #112
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post

    I actually find people like me a good deal more than I like them, or can tolerate. Sometimes this frustrates them. *shrug*
    I've noticed this too, and I'm usually very surprised when I find this out.



  3. #113
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I don't think any of that is unique to INTPs. Or am I in denial? :rolli:
    Yeah, actually, I think it happens more commonly with INTPs.

    One thing is that many types of people assume that they belong to the group, as long as everyone seems cool towards them. It's a foundation belief, that they're part of humanity and part of community.

    INTPs for one draw their conclusions from logic rather than social assumption (plus they tend to react/respond rather than initiate relationship, so they rarely just leap in... especially because they don't like or don't understand the rules), so if they are not getting actual positive feedback from people, the assumption at best is that no one really cares that they're around. (Bottom line: We assume we're not accepted until shown positive feedback.)

    Unhealthy INTPs will drag this further into cynicism and assume they are disliked.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #114
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    The bolded part shows that I did mention that this is not exclusive to INTPs, though it appears to be more often found in INTPs from what I've seen.
    I keep forgetting you know us better than we know ourselves.

    I doubt you know more than a handful at best. So your generalizations are pretty worthless. IME, feelers suffer more with denial than thinkers, because they are less willing/able to take an objective stance and are less able to tolerate cognitive dissonance. Whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #115
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathanthegreat View Post
    No pumpkin, My heart belongs to an ESTP
    Pumpkin?!!!

    That's "The GREAT Pumpkin" to you, bub.
    You ain't getting no candy for Halloween.

    ... as far as the rest of this inane pissing contest on whether feelers or INTPs are more in denial ... OY VEY!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #116
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    INTPs for one draw their conclusions from logic rather than social assumption (plus they tend to react/respond rather than initiate relationship, so they rarely just leap in... especially because they don't like or don't understand the rules), so if they are not getting actual positive feedback from people, the assumption at best is that no one really cares that they're around. (Bottom line: We assume we're not accepted until shown positive feedback.)
    I don't see how that's a *logical* assumption and it isn't one I would make. I assume I'm as acceptable as anyone else until shown otherwise. More often than not, I dont care whether anyone cares as long as it doesn't get in my way. And I'd sooner be ignored and fade into the background, than be the centre of attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #117
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I keep forgetting you know us better than we know ourselves.

    I doubt you know more than a handful at best. So your generalizations are pretty worthless. IME, feelers suffer more with denial than thinkers, because they are less willing/able to take an objective stance and are less able to tolerate cognitive dissonance. Whatever.
    FWIW, I thought her take of the "angry INTP" was pretty spot on. When I was young, my mindset was nearly exactly as she described, however by 18 I moved on from cynical hatred to detached apathy. I don't think it's too far a stretch to think INTPs can be more susceptible to this mindset than some other types.

    Though I will agree with you on the denial front. I was never in denial, I was painfully aware that I was the cause of of my cynical worldview.



  8. #118
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I don't see how that's a *logical* assumption and it isn't one I would make. I assume I'm as acceptable as anyone else until shown otherwise. More often than not, I dont care whether anyone cares as long as it doesn't get in my way. And I'd sooner be ignored and fade into the background, than be the centre of attention.
    Sorry, I was unclear. "They" refers to general members, not necessarily INTPs. I'm typing too fast, I guess.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #119
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    FWIW, I thought her take of the "angry INTP" was pretty spot on. When I was young, my mindset was nearly exactly as she described, however by 18 I moved on from cynical hatred to detached apathy. I don't think it's too far a stretch to think INTPs can be more susceptible to this mindset than some other types.

    Though I will agree with you on the denial front. I was never in denial, I was painfully aware that I was the cause of of my cynical worldview.
    Maybe it's an "angry young man" thing then? I don't recall getting angry as a teen. I was truly oblivious to almost everything and in my own world much of the time. Whenever I encountered hostility it was with bemusement. A bully was lucky to get a raised eyebrow out of me. I didnt really fit anywhere but I still had a pretty healthy sense of my own worth, I think, and never sought to blame anyone. I just did my own thing. Still do. Self-sufficiency FTW!

    ETA. I seem to remember a thread on INTP relationships where most were saying that they are far more likely to turn their analysis and criticism inwards rather than direct it outwards.
    Which is the opposite of what Amargith was saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #120
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Maybe it's an "angry young man" thing then? I don't recall getting angry as a teen. I was truly oblivious to almost everything and in my own world much of the time. Whenever, I encountered hostility it was with bemusement. A bully was lucky to get a raised eyebrow out of me. I didnt really fit anywhere but I still had a pretty healthy sense of my own worth, I think, and never sought to blame anyone. I just did my own thing. Still do. Self-sufficiency FTW!

    ETA. I seem to remember a thread on INTP relationships where most were saying that they are far more likely to turn their analysis and criticism inwards rather than direct it outwards.
    Which is the opposite of what Amargith was saying.
    I didn't experience any outward hostility either. It came from within. And it wasn't people. It was institutions and concepts, and social constructs that I saw no use for, and whenever I challenged my mother about them, the answer I most commonly received back was "Because."

    I do think the male thing does have a lot to do with it. INTP wimminz seem to dodge the angry bullet rather well, and seem generally better put together.

    Keep in mind she did say it was "unhealthy" INTPs, but you are also correct in saying any individual can develop that worldview, I just don't see how you can say the INTP mindset doesn't have a stronger tendency than others to develop that worldview in the first place.



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