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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    As for the staring thing...
    I met an ENTP the other day, and she got stared at. It was different from watching an ENFP. I could see (and hear) an aggressive restless thing she had going. It was in a public place so it was interesting seeing her eyes work, flicking here and there, checking out the other people. There was a kind of outwardness to it that ENFPs don't use, and to my sense of things it was... angry? So I guess I was seeing Ne+Fe rather than Ne+Fi.
    People read my body language as angry all the time. It totally causes conflict with my SF roommate, who thinks that I'm secretly angry at her when I'm actually neutral.

  2. #92
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmandahalf View Post
    People read my body language as angry all the time. It totally causes conflict with my SF roommate, who thinks that I'm secretly angry at her when I'm actually neutral.
    I think that most NT have similar problems.
    Which is because we are not naturally friendly and sensitive toward others.
    So people think that we hate them. While we probably don't even pay attention to them.

  3. #93
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I dunno. I guess the jag varies according to the INTJ's sense of right time, right place, right subject. It's an efficiency thing, like a sense of "are they getting this?", and in lieu of efficiency, it can be a hammer thing, insisting via directive words that something come true, or be understood, or be followed. INTJs get to be boring when they're off and rolling and looking for a closure of some kind so they're ignoring the stop signs. I guess it can be because they've chosen to try their hand at revealling the universal a priori, but picked a dumb topic, one that doesn't really let them do what they do best.

    Yeah, it is authoritarian and horrible, really, a product of not really believing that anything can be made true, but I'm pretty sure the jag can be stopped just by being interacted with. Depending a bit, of course, on maturity and the INTJ's sense of goals being on the way to being met. Whatever the hell those goals may be.

    And some of us just are boring pedants.

    We used to have like a swimsuit calendar of those guys. Skinny hairless geeks with dead eyes in speedos. Then one guy got his picture took in a nice grey suit and he had two sheep's eyes and maybe a banana in some speedos that he held out in front of him. Big laughs, but they didn't do the calendar anymore after that.
    At my company and even when I was in grad school I was nominated as the secret "get an answer out of the INTJ" weapon. I would wonder in, ask the question, collapse into silliness, derail the jag, ask again, question, derail, roll on the floor, and then run away giggling and rambling about. But it seemed to make the INTJs happy. Also my favortie INTJs don't do the jag thing excessively at all, they are much more intense and quiet with the intense stare.

  4. #94
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    As for the staring thing...

    I'll stare at pretty much anyone, and I don't know why that is, except it's a fairly sensitive act of looking for something. I know it is because I'll often not see the thing, whatever it is, and break off the stare because I don't want to be seen to be searching, I guess.

    I met an ENTP the other day, and she got stared at. It was different from watching an ENFP. I could see (and hear) an aggressive restless thing she had going. It was in a public place so it was interesting seeing her eyes work, flicking here and there, checking out the other people. There was a kind of outwardness to it that ENFPs don't use, and to my sense of things it was... angry? So I guess I was seeing Ne+Fe rather than Ne+Fi.

    There's something else going on in this staring business too because I have a harder time keeping the stare feeling right in front of INFPs. They have their own expectant thing going on and it can be a little hard to meet.
    I have had to travel extensively this year and my new hobby is quick typing people while I stand in the plane boarding. The ENTPs are crazy easy to spot as they look at everything and are constantly watching and looking for new oppurtunities and new things to pop up. Each person that comes on gets looked at, then the next and so on. I think more assertive than angry though.

  5. #95
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    At my company and even when I was in grad school I was nominated as the secret "get an answer out of the INTJ" weapon. I would wonder in, ask the question, collapse into silliness, derail the jag, ask again, question, derail, roll on the floor, and then run away giggling and rambling about. But it seemed to make the INTJs happy. Also my favortie INTJs don't do the jag thing excessively at all, they are much more intense and quiet with the intense stare.
    Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.

    It's actually something I am (to some degree) aware of ENFPs doing when they're doing it. I'm probably not aware of all of it, or even the significant percentage, and maybe really only aware of the Te expression of it... but I suppose it's what gets you past the J.

    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I have had to travel extensively this year and my new hobby is quick typing people while I stand in the plane boarding. The ENTPs are crazy easy to spot as they look at everything and are constantly watching and looking for new oppurtunities and new things to pop up. Each person that comes on gets looked at, then the next and so on. I think more assertive than angry though.
    Yeah, I knew it wasn't actual anger, it just looked like it. Being (aggressively) inquisitive, sorta. Maybe plus a little impatience.

  6. #96
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    Most type specific questions can be answered by considering the opposite type.
    So, don't be a flash in the pan.
    I don't wanna!

  7. #97
    Senior Member Erudur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    So Amar... I know that there has been many other threads about this but is ENFP / INTJ really a good match... I am surprised that they are sooo accepting of our silliness... But I have had similar experiences with them also.. Usually they are known by others as being quite stern almost difficult characters but the two in particualr I am thinking of have always been so sweet with me to make me think that popele had got them wrong or something.. Or maybe they are just humouring me
    Some of the INTJs on here come off a bit more stern/hardass than the ones I know incl myself.

    Though, I think I struggle having patience for (and not showing my annoyance with) people who stubbornly stand against beneficial change, or can't see the big picture, or get preachy/overly talkative with really seemingly obvious concrete subjects I don't find interesting. Those situations may leave me seeming mean or angry.

    The cool thing about xNFPs is that they rarely fall into these categories of INTJ annoyances. They tend to be aware enough to avoid them, and tend to engage in more abstract conversations when contacting another N.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I have had to travel extensively this year and my new hobby is quick typing people while I stand in the plane boarding. The ENTPs are crazy easy to spot as they look at everything and are constantly watching and looking for new oppurtunities and new things to pop up. Each person that comes on gets looked at, then the next and so on. I think more assertive than angry though.
    Yeah. But. How do you know you're right?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #99
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    enfp knows what Fi feels like and how Fi is working internally. good enfps are really perceptive about how people are feeling, plus they have a bazillion Ne ways to get people out of their ruts, help nudge and push and initiate them to get going, get going. for intjs who have way bigger hearts than people realize but are totally clueless as to how to express it, altho some can and develop very sophisticated cutting senses of humor to articulate that complexity, enfps are as good a pairing as any.

    for both intjs and infjs, i think enfp and entp are about as balancing and multi-dimensional as it gets. the relationship can become extremely varied and capable of encompassing many possibilities and utilizing a wide range of skillsets. at that point, gender plays a large role as well, and having a t-f spectrum in a relationship usually seems grounding/uplifting for both partners in the way they need it.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmandahalf View Post
    People read my body language as angry all the time. It totally causes conflict with my SF roommate, who thinks that I'm secretly angry at her when I'm actually neutral.
    Heh. Yea, people always think I'm angry. It's just that I look angry when concentrating, and I'm often concentrating mainly because my mind is like a rusted motor. I got to hunker down to make her hum.

    I worked at this place once and my friend who got me the job interview was like, "Everyone keeps asking why you look so angry."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I met an ENTP the other day, and she got stared at. It was different from watching an ENFP. I could see (and hear) an aggressive restless thing she had going. It was in a public place so it was interesting seeing her eyes work, flicking here and there, checking out the other people. There was a kind of outwardness to it that ENFPs don't use, and to my sense of things it was... angry? So I guess I was seeing Ne+Fe rather than Ne+Fi.
    Sometimes I can't stop looking at stuff. Usually it's people. People are endlessly interesting.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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