[NT] Se in ENTPs

[sculpting]

I stole the quote below from the ENTJ Se thread from Kalach as it nicely summarizes the ENTP:

"Okay, I'll play Mr Socionics For a Day: the role of the tertiary in ENTPs or the role of Se?

Tertiary in ENTPs is Fe. It keeps them in the one man up game.

Ne has them changing things up and seeing patterns; Ti is onboard keeping them clever and tracking down the truth of the patterns they see, at least as long as Ne is still interested in the change-ups; and then there's Fe. Fe's on hand to keep them interesting in people, changing them up and tracking down their truth, at least as long as there's something new in there. So, ENTPs really do love people, but they screw with them anyway.

Se? Deceiving eighth. Dunno. Makes them really bad at deciding what to grab a'hold of (other than people) for making something come true? "

Every single ENTP that I show the list of eight functions to latches onto Se after Ne, Ti, Fe and sometimes they will swipe at Ni as well. They all agree that Se is a player occasionally, not all the time. Many will admit they use it as a way to ignore internal discomfort, "they are the craziest when they are the loneliest". Another once told me she parties so she doesn't have to think anymore.

My guess is that Se and Ne must use competitive circuitry in the brain, so you do one or the other, not both. Thus why they are dominant and demon respectively.

ENFPs seem to use it some but not to the same extreme like the ENTPs do.

1) Does this sound accurate?
2) What is going on functionally underneath this mess?

My thought is that it has something to do with Ne seeing the possible repercussions/possibilities due to something, some action, some lack of action and thus a shift is made to Se to block out those visions of the future. If they ignore it, it will go away.

What are they ignoring/blocking out? Fe induced feelings of obligation to others? Pain they have caused in others due to Fe's sometimes manipulative ways?

Thoughts?

 

[Gamine]

Extraverted Sensing is like my vacation.

The way I am thinking about it at this moment is that everything changes, everything is dynamic, and my perceptions/ judgments about things are always adapting with new context.

By being able to "step away" (not "step back" which is more like Super-Ne) from something that I am working through in my mind, I can distract myself with something more experience based. This way, when I go to work on something again, I have a new direction, opportunity, context to think about it. This includes really physical things like dancing, running, sports, hiking and socializing in high-stimulus arenas like clubs.

My current judgement of what Se is replacing or blocking out is Ne. If it's a social experience, then I still use a lot of Fe. It's not in a "I want something so I'm going to try to get it by using these people" way, but a "I want everyone to have a good time/harmony" deal.

I'm no function genius, so take what you will. Happy hunting!

 

[Domino]

Extraverted Sensing is like my vacation.

Hence, when you see an ENTP strongly in the stress grip of their inferior function and out of control, major self-medicating occurs i.e. sleeping around, drinking, drugs, etc.

Si seems cuddly though.

 

[Gamine]

Hence, when you see an ENTP strongly in the stress grip of their inferior function and out of control, major self-medicating occurs i.e. sleeping around, drinking, drugs, etc.

Si seems cuddly though.

Those things sound really tacky. And quite expensive. I have yet to meet an ENTP IRL who enjoys those things listed more than the ideas and information around them. Plus, they all require commitment of some kind.

 

[simulatedworld]

The part about partying so as to not have to think anymore is right on. I often self-medicate just so I can stop thinking long enough to get to sleep.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

Those things sound really tacky. And quite expensive. I have yet to meet an ENTP IRL who enjoys those things listed more than the ideas and information around them. Plus, they all require commitment of some kind.

I agree.

 

[dga]

The part about partying so as to not have to think anymore is right on. I often self-medicate just so I can stop thinking long enough to get to sleep.

and it sucks when that isnt enough

 

[Qre:us]

I stole the quote below from the ENTJ Se thread from Kalach as it nicely summarizes the ENTP:

"Okay, I'll play Mr Socionics For a Day: the role of the tertiary in ENTPs or the role of Se?

Tertiary in ENTPs is Fe. It keeps them in the one man up game.

Ne has them changing things up and seeing patterns; Ti is onboard keeping them clever and tracking down the truth of the patterns they see, at least as long as Ne is still interested in the change-ups; and then there's Fe. Fe's on hand to keep them interesting in people, changing them up and tracking down their truth, at least as long as there's something new in there. So, ENTPs really do love people, but they screw with them anyway.

Se? Deceiving eighth. Dunno. Makes them really bad at deciding what to grab a'hold of (other than people) for making something come true? "

Every single ENTP that I show the list of eight functions to latches onto Se after Ne, Ti, Fe and sometimes they will swipe at Ni as well. They all agree that Se is a player occasionally, not all the time. Many will admit they use it as a way to ignore internal discomfort, "they are the craziest when they are the loneliest". Another once told me she parties so she doesn't have to think anymore.

My guess is that Se and Ne must use competitive circuitry in the brain, so you do one or the other, not both. Thus why they are dominant and demon respectively.

ENFPs seem to use it some but not to the same extreme like the ENTPs do.

1) Does this sound accurate?
2) What is going on functionally underneath this mess?

My thought is that it has something to do with Ne seeing the possible repercussions/possibilities due to something, some action, some lack of action and thus a shift is made to Se to block out those visions of the future. If they ignore it, it will go away.

What are they ignoring/blocking out? Fe induced feelings of obligation to others? Pain they have caused in others due to Fe's sometimes manipulative ways?

Thoughts?

What if your Ne is a motivation for the gates to open on Se? Like, for me, I often go by the saying, "Try everything, at least once."

I sometimes feel bad if I see a possibility (to do something) come up, or about to come up, and I don't take the measures to make myself available for the experience. Not so much about the experience in particular, but, to have known what such an experience feels like. I don't want to leave out any experience, so that I limit what I 'know about'. It's more about the novelty of certain experiences that allows me to consciously tap into Se, and say, 'you may never get to try this again, so go at it, full-throttle!'

I also like to Se-out to get in a 'zone'. I guess it's the same idea as 'escaping from over-thinking'....but, it's not as much motivated by escapting, than about wanting the 'zone'. I sometimes live off of intensity. And, of the most tangible kind, are physical experiences.

Hence, when you see an ENTP strongly in the stress grip of their inferior function and out of control, major self-medicating occurs i.e. sleeping around, drinking, drugs, etc.

Si seems cuddly though.

When I'm stressed, I become a very rigid (oxymoron?) INTJ. As for sleeping around, I probably would have when I was single, if there weren't consequences. Sometimes, I actually look up STD images, or birthing videos (err...yes...). It's a huge demotivator to engage in such activities, and, thus, I um...have an internal scale, for when another is worthy enough to make me take that risk. Look out for No. 1, first, and always. I detest getting played for a fool, and, weirdly enough, never have, since I turned 18. My dad's (ESTJ) most 'proudest' point about me, as per his commentary to my mother, 'I really don't have to worry about her, as no one can ever make her do something she doesn't want to do.' [and, when I decide on something, there's very few 'holes' left that I haven't accounted for, including summing up personal character of others, hence, lessens that chance of being blind-sighted]

 

[Kasper]

Se is two things for me, one is fun and adventure for the sake of new and exciting experiences, things like adventure sports make me jump out of my skin in the excitement of the moment, the other is escaping the horrible Fe/Ti overload when stressed.

Hence, when you see an ENTP strongly in the stress grip of their inferior function and out of control, major self-medicating occurs i.e. sleeping around, drinking, drugs, etc.

Sure but not for me, they're not my thoughts on fun, drinking is the only thing on that list that I'm interested in, if it were to be used in a self-medicating way it would be to stop the Fe-Ti loop I can get stuck in when over stressed and Ne-less. For me Se is usually more natural than that though, being around immediate noise and action that captures me in the moment and grabs my attention or being around nature that absorbs me, anything to stop thinking and feeling anything other than what is in that moment. Music is the best.

ETA: Actually you can tell when I'm stressed cause I tend to post mainly music, pictures or other such things

 

[sculpting]

oooooohhhhhh, breakthrough, well I think.

So I just got off the phone with most favorite ENTP in the universe. She just had her second baby and started telling me about how she suddenly felt hollow and empty as the baby's birth was nearing. After some thought she realized that it was becuase her oldest child was nearing two and time had flown so quickly.

She realized there were happy memories and sad memories along the way-HOWEVER she doesn't have a "feeling" imprint of the happy memories. She knows they were happy, she can't replicate the happy feeling when thinking about it, so she just feels empty and sad becuase the happy isn't really there-even though she knows it was a happy memory.

She immediately felt the urge to go party to fill up the emptiness.

She said the sad memories also leave an empty spot but are no worse or better than the happy spots left by the happy memories.

She is excited and happy about the events of the future even though they will be very challenging, but if she stops to reflect backwards, she feels the emptiness of the lack of a "feeling" footprint.

When I think backwards on happy moments, it is like a bit of an echo of happiness bounces around inside of me. Is this an Fi thing?

 

[Kasper]

She realized there were happy memories and sad memories along the way-HOWEVER she doesn't have a "feeling" imprint of the happy memories. She knows they were happy, she can't replicate the happy feeling when thinking about it, so she just feels empty and sad becuase the happy isn't really there-even though she knows it was a happy memory.

She immediately felt the urge to go party to fill up the emptiness.

She said the sad memories also leave an empty spot but are no worse or better than the happy spots left by the happy memories.

She is excited and happy about the events of the future even though they will be very challenging, but if she stops to reflect backwards, she feels the emptiness of the lack of a "feeling" footprint.

That makes sense to me, I find it very hard to relive emotions, with extreme highs I can feel them again fleetingly but they'll feel less intense each time I remember and I'll need something physical to prompt the feelings. Like your friend said, I can remember that things were happy or sad or whatever but I can't replicate those feelings.

 

[thisGuy]

She said the sad memories also leave an empty spot but are no worse or better than the happy spots left by the happy memories.

She is excited and happy about the events of the future even though they will be very challenging, but if she stops to reflect backwards, she feels the emptiness of the lack of a "feeling" footprint.

thats true with me too...one of the reason's why im bad at learning life lessons and why it doesnt work when people try to remind what i went through the last time made the same mistake

that said, there will be nights when im not able to sleep because my head is going CRAZY with what might happen tomorrow...how my date might turn out tomorrow...when that happens, i have to clear my head and focus my attention on something physical and static...something that won't trigger more possibilities. some people call that meditation

there have been nights when just lying there i have gotten an adrenalin rush...its fucking amazing but of course ruins the entire next day

 

[Kalach]

I sometimes feel bad if I see a possibility (to do something) come up, or about to come up, and I don't take the measures to make myself available for the experience. Not so much about the experience in particular, but, to have known what such an experience feels like. I don't want to leave out any experience, so that I limit what I 'know about'. It's more about the novelty of certain experiences that allows me to consciously tap into Se, and say, 'you may never get to try this again, so go at it, full-throttle!'

Seeking detailed data? Comparing?

She realized there were happy memories and sad memories along the way-HOWEVER she doesn't have a "feeling" imprint of the happy memories. She knows they were happy, she can't replicate the happy feeling when thinking about it, so she just feels empty and sad becuase the happy isn't really there-even though she knows it was a happy memory.

Because she's N (and naturally future-oriented)? Or because it was Fe (and the external thing isn't there anymore)?


That thing about past events being gone once time has passed is a thing that has been bothering me recently too. Where did it all go, what has come of it, did those things really happen?

Dunno if it's the same idea.

 

[Domino]

Sorry, y'all. Maybe I should have qualified my statement with:

*This is the stress behavior of the ENTPs I know personally (not ALL entps)
*All the ENTPs I know are pretty broken in the head
*All the ENTPs I know are male - you girls react differently? (That's it - I have to acquire me a ENTP gal to have around)

I get phone calls regularly - sometimes drunk, high, quietly freaking out, et al - from ENTPs losing it. She did me wrong... I can't sleep... Tell me a story... Talk me down... Nothing's going right, make me laugh... Slather me with Fe and be sweet to me...

I know one in particular who doesn't drink, smoke or eat his stress. He finds a loss of control VERY distasteful (he considers himself too smart to succumb to such things). His stress grip still seems to turn him into a masochist (just not with chemicals, more like looking for trouble). I know another ENTP like that as well - fastidious with his person.

 

[entropie]

*All the ENTPs I know are pretty broken in the head

Fix me !

 

[Domino]

Fix me !

Mission: Applying cerebral space shuttle tape to Entropie's brain.

 

[entropie]

One thing though. You describe a rather intresting phaenomenom pink.

There is that INFJ girl I know. She always gets to know people of whom she says right from the start they are broken in the head. In the end then, when the people are stalking her, she loudly complains about them being broken in the head and asks for help to get rid of them.

Meaning: she knew from the start, did it nevertheless and later complained about it.

I know feelings aint logical and if you like someone you give him a chance. But why the big show of being surprised in the end ?

 

[Blackmail!]

*All the ENTPs I know are male - you girls react differently? (That's it - I have to acquire me a ENTP gal to have around)

You could check Qre:us, whatever or FemmeUrbane, if you want.

But as a matter of fact, I know several ENTP girls IRL. Very interesting people, by the way.

 

[Blackmail!]

Fix me !

Why should she?

Frankly, do you deserve a repair, you alcoholic wreck?

 

[Domino]

One thing though. You describe a rather intresting phaenomenom pink.

There is that INFJ girl I know. She always gets to know people of whom she says right from the start they are broken in the head. In the end then, when the people are stalking her, she loudly complains about them being broken in the head and asks for help to get rid of them.

Meaning: she knew from the start, did it nevertheless and later complained about it.

I know feelings aint logical and if you like someone you give him a chance. But why the big show of being surprised in the end ?

I've caused offense, I think. My apologies. "Broken in the head" is a term flipped around amongst my friends to mean a wide variety and level of brokenness, ranging from silly and crazy, to WTH? It's not a slight by any definition. This includes me too.

(I met a guy once who had had such an ideal upbringing that NOTHING was wrong with him. He gave me the creeps!)

As to attracting and dealing with truly unstable bad-crazy people, I wouldn't know. I don't court that sort of acquaintance.