[ENTJ] what ROLE does Se play in ENTJs?

[Riva]

Alright boys and girls the title says it all. I just need to learn about functions and you are gonna help me. no questions!

 

[Valiant]

Ehm... Doesn't Se play the same role in all people? Noticing and interacting with the physical world around us...?

 

[Costrin]

Ehm... Doesn't Se play the same role in all people? Noticing and interacting with the physical world around us...?

Nah. Each type uses each function differently. An ESTP's and INFJ's use of Se are very different.

For ENJs, Se would be their tertiary, and supposedly operate at a child-like, naive level. It's also their relief function. And stuff....

imo.

 

[entropie]

Concerning the Mbti positionment of the functions, typelogic.com sometimes givse some ideas to think on:

Extraverted Sensing [ENTJ]
Sensing reaches out to embrace that which physically touches it. ENTJs have an awareness of the real; of that which exists. By stilling the engines of Thinking and iNtuition, this type may experience the Here and Now, and know things not dreamt of nor even postulated in iNtuition's philosophy. Sensing's minor role, however, puts it at risk for distortion or extreme weakness beneath the hustle and bustle of the giants N and T.

Socionics says the following, but of course function order is different there:

[edit] 6. Extroverted sensing
LIEs actively pursue their external goals, to the sacrifice of their immediate considerations of comfort, but regularly experience periods of procrastination where they need prodding, a strong push, or forceful support from others to continue onward in the direction they have chosen.

LIEs admire people who do not back off from direct personal confrontations and who stand their ground; they aim at doing that and often succeed, but their stronger focus on means that their resolution in this regard is often weakened by thoughts of the possible negative consequences of such confrontations. Likewise, they admire, and try to emulate, persons who are resolute, even pushy towards others, when pursuing their goals. However, they are put off by persons who are overly aggressive and who seem to prefer to use verbal or physical aggression as a replacement of logical or ethical arguments, rather than as a support for them.

The focus of LIEs on and means that a strong motivation in their actions is of achievement in the longer term, either of a material or professional nature, most typically financial, over more short-term considerations.

I myself dont know Jack about Se, got a few ideas but nothing trustworthy yet

 

[Ezra]

Let's please leave socionics out of this. This is MBTI, not socionics. In socionics, I use Se as a leading function, and it is very different to how it is in MBTI.

In MBTI, I have no idea how I use it.

 

[substitute]

From my observations: a fall-back, when things go wrong, and not in a good way. That is, bouts of alcoholism, thrill seeking, casual sex and stuff like that, when they get super stressed and are not very healthy mentally in the first place. When they're on good form, then getting stressed makes them do lots of sports, preferably competitive sports, and take it way too seriously

 

[BlackCat]

From my observations: a fall-back, when things go wrong, and not in a good way. That is, bouts of alcoholism, thrill seeking, casual sex and stuff like that, when they get super stressed and are not very healthy mentally in the first place. When they're on good form, then getting stressed makes them do lots of sports, preferably competitive sports, and take it way too seriously

I think you're onto something here. It makes them want to come out of withdrawal and do things in the world. It also makes them want to make the things they think about come into the real world, like projects etc.

 

[527468]

Te aids Se at least as much as Se aids Te.

 

[Venom]

From my observations: a fall-back, when things go wrong, and not in a good way. That is, bouts of alcoholism, thrill seeking, casual sex and stuff like that, when they get super stressed and are not very healthy mentally in the first place. When they're on good form, then getting stressed makes them do lots of sports, preferably competitive sports, and take it way too seriously

i completely disagree. ur describing an inferior function. Tertiary has many positive uses.

Manifestations of tertiary Se in the ENJs i know:

1. obsession with becoming physically strong/looking good (working out etc)
2. may have "sensor-like" 'tastes' (i didnt coin this idea)
3. may have random bouts of "I wanna build shit!" (wanna-be ISTP mode)

ENTJs are the SJs of the NTs not because they are into tradition, but because ENTJs are actually quite in tune with reality, society's norms of taste and the 5 senses.

For examples:

1. Im probably the most personally vain NT on this forum (lots of mirror time) ....though it still cant hold a candle to ESTP vainness.
2. INTJ sibling accuses me of having "too much sensor music"
3. I have random bouts of ISTP wanna-be-ness: sometimes i just get in the car, stick shift in hand, blasting music, power slide, rock the clutch, spin the tires etc.


As far as useful role, this demonstration should help:

INTP Ti Si = walking encyclopedia (any of them)
INTJ Ni Fi = undying devotion to their pet intuitions (tesla)
ENTP Ne Fe = poorly reasoned weirdness brought to the masses (Obama)
ENTJ Te Se = Undying devotion to empiricism (factoid implementation and testing)



I should point out that on Vent, ThatGirl accused me of being an ESXP, because I wouldnt believe in her unsubstantiated claims without any evidence (silly ENTPs ). I would argue that tertiary Se can make us look like ESXPs due to our devotion to empirical proof.

 

[jenocyde]

As far as useful role, this demonstration should help:

INTP Ti Si = walking encyclopedia (any of them)
INTJ Ni Fi = undying devotion to their pet intuitions (tesla)
ENTP Ne Fe = poorly reasoned weirdness brought to the masses (Obama)
ENTJ Te Se = Undying devotion to empiricism (factoid implementation and testing)

Poorly reasoned weirdness? I don't think so, but nice try.

 

[Qre:us]

Modification if I may, in order to clean the playing field of subjective bias:

As far as useful role, this demonstration should help:

INTP Ti Si = walking encyclopedia (any of them) undying devotion to Solipsism or Fallibilism [depending on how one sees the utility of Si] (the skeptics)
INTJ Ni Fi = undying devotion to their pet intuitions (tesla) undying devotion to rationalism
ENTP Ne Fe = poorly reasoned weirdness brought to the masses (Obama) undying devotion to constructivism
ENTJ Te Se = Undying devotion to empiricism (factoid implementation and testing) oddly enough, no change...what was your type again?

 

[Venom]

Poorly reasoned weirdness? I don't think so, but nice try.

If you noticed, i was having a thought experiment with 1st n 3rd position functions.

You object to the terms: "poorly reasoned weirdness brought to the masses"

Ne = weird
Fe = brought to the masses
No Ti or Te = poorly reasoned

 

[FDG]

From my observations: a fall-back, when things go wrong, and not in a good way. That is, bouts of alcoholism, thrill seeking, casual sex and stuff like that, when they get super stressed and are not very healthy mentally in the first place. When they're on good form, then getting stressed makes them do lots of sports, preferably competitive sports, and take it way too seriously

But there must also be a balanced version of this attitude. I find that playing sports and hiking in the nature, climbing mountains, can be refreshing for my soul and enegizing. If I don't enage with the outside world for too long, I become very scattered and lethargic. And the effect is the same whether I'm stressed or not.

 

[Bougal]

I don’t really use my senses very effectively. If someone asks me to look for some form of documentation, I can search for 40 minutes and not find it and then someone else (that is not another NT) can find what I am looking for in a minute in the first place I had searched for it, and where I expected it to be all along. Furthermore, I don’t have a sense of smell and I have a slightly weak sense of taste, so I guess you can say that I am missing some of the S-world all together. I have done photo for about 6 years now, and I do use my S there and I am aware of visual beauty around me, but I mainly do portraiture so I think the N still plays a bigger part in my art. I am careful about my appearance but not to the same extent as the Ss that I am close with. I don’t clean, I’m not bothered by messes in the least, but it drives my ESFJ mother up a wall as you can imagine.

 

[jenocyde]

If you noticed, i was having a thought experiment with 1st n 3rd position functions.

You object to the terms: "poorly reasoned weirdness brought to the masses"

Ne = weird
Fe = brought to the masses
No Ti or Te = poorly reasoned

Yes, I noticed. But Ne does not equal "weird".

And by that logic, you would have written:
INTJ Ni Fi = poorly reasoned devotion to their pet intuitions (tesla)

 

[Kalach]

Warning: the following is a rehash of the standard MBTI model:


Se in ENTJs? It's what keeps them on the go.


Tertiary functions, aka relief, for want of a better analogy are the little tiny Hegel in all of us: dominant provides the thesis, auxiliary provides the antithesis, and tertiary boils up a synthesis.

In ENTJs, Te segments, organises for efficiency and systematises; Ni foresees implications... and just like for any type, in the absence of any S at all, the whole system does absolutely nothing whatsoever. But ENTJs have the Se. So they have all these plans and efficiencies and future insights, and then they've got the Se... they're in the moment, seeing what's there in front of them, aware of their immediate physical environment. So they get moving.


Thus, Se keeps them on the go. Same for ENFJs.

 

[Riva]

Warning: the following is a rehash of the standard MBTI model:


Se in ENTJs? It's what keeps them on the go.


Tertiary functions, aka relief, for want of a better analogy are the little tiny Hegel in all of us: dominant provides the thesis, auxiliary provides the antithesis, and tertiary boils up a synthesis.

In ENTJs, Te segments, organises for efficiency and systematises; Ni foresees implications... and just like for any type, in the absence of any S at all, the whole system does absolutely nothing whatsoever. But ENTJs have the Se. So they have all these plans and efficiencies and future insights, and then they've got the Se... they're in the moment, seeing what's there in front of them, aware of their immediate physical environment. So they get moving.


Thus, Se keeps them on the go. Same for ENFJs.

i think this was the answer i was looking for. thank you.
can you(or anyone who knows abt functions) repeat the same thing for ENTPs.

 

[Riva]

From my observations: a fall-back, when things go wrong, and not in a good way. That is, bouts of alcoholism, thrill seeking, casual sex and stuff like that, when they get super stressed and are not very healthy mentally in the first place. When they're on good form, then getting stressed makes them do lots of sports, preferably competitive sports, and take it way too seriously

lol. i guess you are right in a way. but i think the Tertiary functions plays a more serious role in people. like described below.

Manifestations of tertiary Se in the ENJs i know:

1. obsession with becoming physically strong/looking good (working out etc)
2. may have "sensor-like" 'tastes' (i didnt coin this idea)
3. may have random bouts of "I wanna build shit!" (wanna-be ISTP mode)

ENTJs are the SJs of the NTs not because they are into tradition, but because ENTJs are actually quite in tune with reality, society's norms of taste and the 5 senses.

 

[Kalach]

Okay, I'll play Mr Socionics For a Day: the role of the tertiary in ENTPs or the role of Se?

Tertiary in ENTPs is Fe. It keeps them in the one man up game.

Ne has them changing things up and seeing patterns; Ti is onboard keeping them clever and tracking down the truth of the patterns they see, at least as long as Ne is still interested in the change-ups; and then there's Fe. Fe's on hand to keep them interesting in people, changing them up and tracking down their truth, at least as long as there's something new in there. So, ENTPs really do love people, but they screw with them anyway.

Se? Deceiving eighth. Dunno. Makes them really bad at deciding what to grab a'hold of (other than people) for making something come true?

 

[LeonardoLestat]

Alright boys and girls the title says it all. I just need to learn about functions and you are gonna help me. no questions!

They're apt at learning skills and have in-depth reviews and analysis' of sensory stuff.

Also, we adapt to our environment, physically.

SP in the ENTJ also means that the ENTJ is actually fun and spontaneous.