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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default development of Fe in ENTPs

    So lots of thoughts in my fluffy head lately regarding ENTPs and issues with flirting, commitment, and maturity

    I have several good case studies of ENTPs I watch. All are older-34-50.

    Some seem very balanced and seem to use thier tertiary Fe to help them constrain some of the more impulsive tendencies of the Ne-Ti combination, especially with respect to social situations and monogmy.

    One uses it to develop very good working relationships across departments, and gives a sense of trustworthiness and dependibility as well as sort of bowing to the system and the rules a bit more than a typical entp would.

    One uses Fe to extend a "mothering" influence subconciously and seems able to nuetralize high tension situations very effectively this way.

    Another-slimy-seems to lack the use of this function altogether, and possess a high degree of "moral relativity" and is not well liked.

    1) When does this develop for you guys?
    2) Is it painful/difficult as it develops? (ie trusting others and so on..)
    3) Do you use it on purpose to influence others or does it emerge on its own at times?

    thoughts?

  2. #2
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    from where i stand, in my journey of observation, the actual functions of entp are NeTiSeFi. they are not interested in "mutual dependence"

    "mothering" is a possible activity of Fi, as seen in FiNe people.
    it's motivation is very ambivalent, though. like a 4's "direction of disintegration": 2. (enneagram talk)

    an Fe person would feel save when nurturing, as this degree of pro-activity buys him/her an agent independence without loosing the benefits of relation (they are valued by Fe).

    an Fi person would feel very invested and soon waisted, when nurturing for periods. they need to get something back.
    something of native value to Fi.

  3. #3
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    "mothering" is a possible activity of Fi, as seen in FiNe people.
    it's motivation is very ambivalent, though. like a 4's "direction of disintegration": 2. (enneagram talk)

    an Fe person would feel save when nurturing, as this degree of pro-activity buys him/her an agent independence without loosing the benefits of relation (they are valued by Fe).

    .
    As an Fi I understand this type of intense mothering. If I like someone at all they sort of become part of my "clan" and I feel the need to take care of them. It is hard not to care for them. For her it is a little different as she just appears "mothering" in a very stable way on the surface. She can calm groups and organize them in a very Fe way with everyone being assigned a role and understanding what they need to do next. She is also good at conflict resolution due to her ability to neutralize discussions. Maybe mothering is not the best term for what she does.

    So you think the tertiary is actually Se? I guess I dont understand as I thoght there were specific orders of how the functions go for different types.

    Where is costrin when I need him?

  4. #4
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    the function order i was referring to is from socionics, not from mbti.

    well the judgment is yours, i can discuss without knowing the person, i just hope that, when you say "in a very Fe way" you actually compare this way to enfj and esfj and not just to a theoretical understanding of Fe


    She can calm groups and organize them in a very Fe way with everyone being assigned a role and understanding what they need to do next.
    ENTp are obsessed with how things work, and how they will work together.

  5. #5
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Hi happy puppy!

    Clearly, I am not an ENTP, but I have lived with one for 17 years and seem to feel the need to comment on my observations of him at present.

    From my observations, Fe is indeed his third, (tertiary) function. In most people, function no 3 has a child-like quality to it. We use it to play and find relief from our normal approaches to life. Like a child, this function tends to be all-or-nothing - swinging from a hopeful, positive, enthusiastic attitude to a deflated, negative, pessimistic one, with very little in between.

    My ENTP has quite a well-developed and obvious Fe function. In its positive expression, he enjoys company, makes friends easily and does indeed tend to "mother" other people. He loves to offer advice to help people sort out their problems, is VERY generous (with time, money and other things), and is an excellent host, who loves preparing creative meals for others.

    In its more negative expression, he is super-sensitive to rejection (perceived or actual), becomes a lot more forceful and abrupt with his advice-giving, and can be super-critical and harsh when dealing with others.

    In either mode, he projects his moods outwards for all to see. This can have very powerful effects on anyone remotely sensitive in the immediate vicinity, as he has quite a strong personality. His positive moods are infectious and can lighten the mood of everyone he comes into contact with. His bad moods are terrible to behold, even when he does his best to contain them. He has a withering "death stare" which can kill small animals at a hundred paces!

    Contrary to the popular conception of NT-types as unemotional, he is anything but! He experiences his emotions very strongly indeed, he just prefers not to use them as a basis for making important decisions, relying on his Introverted Thinking logic instead.

    He has a fair amount of awareness of the importance and value of Fe, even if he doesn't always understand it. He comes to me for advice on matters Fe, eg. when he can't make sense of another person's behaviour, or wants to rephrase something in a more diplomatic fashion.

    Hope this helps!
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

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  6. #6
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Oh, and he is a firm believer in commitment and stability in relationships, but that could also be down to being a typical Taurus!
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  7. #7
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    moodiness suggests awareness of emotions which, in theory, could be maintained by both Fi and absence/inferiority of Fe. any strong Fe would not only try but succeed in avoiding direct explosive expression. also hurt enfj become demonstrative "sharp" (cold anger) but don't admit to be hurt or they may even deny anger. the more angy Fe gets, the more controlled it gets, but it may explode if it feels that this is strategically appropriate. explode in a controlled way.

    what i read doesnt sound like anything i wouldnt expect from enfp

  8. #8
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    WOW...these are somethings that i have never actually read on any ENTP mbti descriptions but reading this thread, they hit tooo close to home

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    My ENTP has quite a well-developed and obvious Fe function. In its positive expression, he enjoys company, makes friends easily and does indeed tend to "mother" other people. He loves to offer advice to help people sort out their problems, is VERY generous (with time, money and other things), and is an excellent host, who loves preparing creative meals for others.
    mother people <- very much so, now that i think bout it...only with close friends n family though

    my friends talk to me about their problems...i do listen and offer a solution to their problems
    this seemed very unENTP like to me but Fe, you say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    In either mode, he projects his moods outwards for all to see. This can have very powerful effects on anyone remotely sensitive in the immediate vicinity, as he has quite a strong personality. His positive moods are infectious and can lighten the mood of everyone he comes into contact with. His bad moods are terrible to behold, even when he does his best to contain them. He has a withering "death stare" which can kill small animals at a hundred paces!
    my moob does have a VERY powerful effect on people around me. ive been told i can single handedly raise the mood and heighten the excitement of people around me. sometimes of neighboring tables if we are at a restaurant celebrating friends' bdays.

    same is true for when my mood is below 0. i would think i have the perfect poker face and then some friend would ask me if im alright...if im walking down the street, random people will clear the path....at first i couldnt figure out why, but now it makes perfect sense.

  9. #9
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Contrary to the popular conception of NT-types as unemotional, he is anything but! He experiences his emotions very strongly indeed, he just prefers not to use them as a basis for making important decisions, relying on his Introverted Thinking logic instead.

    He has a fair amount of awareness of the importance and value of Fe, even if he doesn't always understand it. He comes to me for advice on matters Fe, eg. when he can't make sense of another person's behaviour, or wants to rephrase something in a more diplomatic fashion.
    Excellent example of an ENTPs feelings as well as the up sides to finding a partner that naturally balances each other.

    My Fe is not my tertiary function, in fact it's last and unused. I come out with Ne/Ti in a basic tie with Fi and Se in the 3 and 4 slots. I'm very well aware of feelings both mine and others thus me liking how Apollanaut described her husband. In the end while I'm sensitive to others feelings they don't play the same roll in making a choice as my head, what's right/wrong, logical and so on does.

    1) When does this develop for you guys?
    It's not an egg that just hatches one day man. It's like planting a seed, always growing, in fact always there just not something we go to first.

    2) Is it painful/difficult as it develops? (ie trusting others and so on..)
    This is where my Ne/Ti kicks in, I trust others, if they can sneak it past my Ne/Ti good for them. Life as a rule is painful, this takes no more work than any other part of being a balanced person.

    3) Do you use it on purpose to influence others or does it emerge on its own at times?
    How are you going to influence people with Fe? I don't know, it's not a strong process of mine nor one I care to spend much time working on. It seems however like using Fe to influence people when you have Ti and Ne would be like taking a paper clip and rubber band to hunt elephants.

    As a side note, god I'm a hypochondriac! I saw "flu" in "influence" and decided I was sick for real!

  10. #10
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    ENTPs only have three functions:

    Ne Ti Se. Inferior Fe and Fi in the same type is how the monster that is ENTP could ever even be conceivable.

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