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  1. #61
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm frankly surprised at how many NTs go to such great lengths to deny the existence of their emotions (and how many others actually buy it!)

    You're an ass
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #62
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    Guilty as charged.

    Okay I do this one thing that I think is Ne but just to drive my ISTP crazy.

    When I empty the dishwasher I just put the dishes wherever there happens to be empty space in the cabinet. So... after awhile they all migrate throughout the kitchen as cabinet space becomes available, due to using more or less bowls that week. The cups may start to the top left but eventually they are all at the bottom right after like six weeks. I have stopped to consider if you could apply some sort of mathmatical model to map out the transtion as they migrate and thus predict the next possible location of a cup in like four weeks.

    He would seriously go crazy over this. I think it may be Ne's doing...
    I know it would drive me crazy! I don't let my ENTP anywhere near the dishwasher, either to load or unload it. I f I go away for a few days, the cabinets are just as you described (that's if he even bothered to do any washing up at all!). :steam:
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  3. #63
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Sounds like a P type, the one that just needs a good yelling!
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  4. #64
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Okay I posted the below crap up at the the personality/MBTI area as a theory of some of the personality disorders based on the nutty ENTP and my more reasonable ENTPs as well as some self introspection into what it's like living as an ENFP. If amplified I could see how base behaviors of both types could morph into personality disorders (which I didnt even believe in till last week)

    Overrview:

    Ne makes you look eternally outward and become absorbed in the external object.

    So imagine for ENTP/ENFPwith a dominant Ne, you look to the external world for continual affirmation, either intellectually (Ti) or emotionally (Fi).

    ENTP=Compensetory Narcissistic personality disorder, hypersensitive to critisism of thier Ti

    ENFP=Borderline Personality Disorder, hypersenstive to rejection of Fi

    Both are marked by extreme withdrawal upon any perceived rejection/criticism, being very difficult to "fix", and feelings of hollow, empty nothingness given the lack of an internal compass.


    Theory 1:

    For a healthy individual you strengthen the tertiary function and at some point become more self sufficient and stronger and able to be less sensitive to either critisism of your intellectual ideas (Ti) or rejection of your emotional advances (Fi). You become less dependent upon external affirmation of your self worth.

    For an unhealthy individual you never develop that tertiary skill and end up profoundly dependent upon Ti/Fi always searching for external confirmation through Ne.

    Solution: Better development of Fe/Te tertiary function

    Theory 2 (more along lenorre Thompson's book):

    Normal ENTP: Ne, Ti, Fe
    Normal ENFP: Ne, Fi, Te

    NPD ENTP: Ne, Fe, Ti
    BPD ENFP: Ne, Te, Fi

    In these cases the person is very undeveloped in the second function due to the Ne pulling them way outside of themselves, so they use the tertiary defensively but poorly. They are very insecure about the secondary function and are very hypersensitive to either emotional (Fi) or intellectual (Ti) criticism.

    Solution: Better development and balance of Ti/Fi and more healthy use of the tertiary function. Lennorre seems to think the tertiary gets used really badly at times to support the primary.



    Do you guys have thoughts on this based upon how your Fe has grown in? I thought thoery 1 may have merit at first but I am really leaning towards theory 2 now, after spending a few days talking with (ie experimenting on) the ENTP population and watching myself under stress.

  5. #65
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Your analysis is correct. Your answer/solution is not.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  6. #66
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Your analysis is correct. Your answer/solution is not.
    crap I was editing! which one is correct/not correct?
    I think this is really important in understanding even normal Ne folks , it's just that the PDs give us more extreme behavorial examples to study

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post

    Do you guys have thoughts on this based upon how your Fe has grown in? I thought thoery 1 may have merit at first but I am really leaning towards theory 2 now, after spending a few days talking with (ie experimenting on) the ENTP population and watching myself under stress.
    Why can't both be right? I see them as the same coin, differently sided. Your first theory has the individual healthy to begin with which I'd take it to mean that their Aux is already developed well, while the second one isn't healthy to begin with and their Aux is underdeveloped. So..

    1. You develop your Aux well enough and then you strengthen your Tert, you're healthier for it.

    2. You strengthen your Tert and forgo developing your Aux, you're unhealthier by it.

    I don't think it's about Ne (or any X Dom) pulling the individual away from outside of themselves (or inside for Introverts) but a matter of repressing their Aux covertly and stressing their Tert overtly. The Tert would be pulling you outside of yourself (inside for Is) in a manner that's unfamiliar to you and to others. That is, if you were balanced to begin with or more often than not, you wouldn't seem like yourself and people who are more familiar with you notice (your Tert). To flip that, if you were mostly unbalanced and people were familiar with you, you wouldn't seem like yourself when you express positive change (with your Aux).

  8. #68
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Could it be both possibilities are real but show differently?

    Theory 1 is actually normal development with growth of Fe a bit later, sometimes ackwardly, but there and matured by mid thirties.

    Thoery 2 is anomolous and is a defense mechanism to protect Ti/Fi. I honestly can indetify with theory 2 myself, as I find myself using Te defensively as needed. It works okay and I don't think I qualify as too loony I have used Te since my early teens.

    The reason this is relevant is crazy NPD ENTP actually looked at the list of functions and self identified as Ne> Fe> Ti with an occasional Se. The other ENTPs did not do that. However it fits with the NPD ability to manipulate others in an attempt to protect the fragile self.

    I need to put more thought into Ne externalization as I think there may be validity here. I also need to understand what is going on with Se as it is being used oddly by the ENTPs.

  9. #69
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    You're an ass
    lol it's true though. I know many NTs who go to great lengths to squelch all emotion from their dealings with the world, and it creates a distorted image of the temperament to some. I've been told I can't be ENTP because I'm not stoic enough; what a joke. Look at Edahn.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    Could it be both possibilities are real but show differently?
    Yup, that's what I was saying.

    Theory 1 is actually normal development with growth of Fe a bit later, sometimes ackwardly, but there and matured by mid thirties.

    Thoery 2 is anomolous and is a defense mechanism to protect Ti/Fi. I honestly can indetify with theory 2 myself, as I find myself using Te defensively as needed. It works okay and I don't think I qualify as too loony I have used Te since my early teens.
    We're mostly in agreement. I don't believe in strict functional order beyond the first three or that the development occurs gradually as we age. Maturation is dependent on the individual. It's more so what experiences trigger the necessary awareness needed to cultivate functions that we either place or have placed on us in a positive, neutral or negative manner.

    The reason this is relevant is crazy NPD ENTP actually looked at the list of functions and self identified as Ne> Fe> Ti with an occasional Se. The other ENTPs did not do that. However it fits with the NPD ability to manipulate others in an attempt to protect the fragile self.
    Y'know I was thinking of creating a thread on all the possible manifestations of Type illnesses through functional impairment but you beat me to the punch with Ne Doms. I'm still not finished with the bunch. >_>

    As for occasional Se, could it have perhaps have been Si? Being their Inferior, it'd push at their psyche after they've strained their limit operating under Ne-Fe with repressed Ti.

    I need to put more thought into Ne externalization as I think there may be validity here. I also need to understand what is going on with Se as it is being used oddly by the ENTPs.
    When you do figure it out, speak to me about it. I'm highly curious.

    Sigh. Them oddballs and all their sightings.

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