[ENTP] development of Fe in ENTPs

[BlackCat]

I don't really understand this. I know exactly how I feel. I'm not sure how you can't know how you feel. It tends to be right there on the surface, it's like reading a stock ticker for me. I don't necessarily think it's Fi related.

I should have rephrased that, you know WHY you feel the way you do, which leads to fixing it. Some of the people I've talked to can't figure it out too quickly, which they blamed on a low F function. I don't know for myself, just going by what people have said to me.

If it's not then oh well. lol

 

[JocktheMotie]

I should have rephrased that, you know WHY you feel the way you do, which leads to fixing it. Some of the people I've talked to can't figure it out too quickly, which they blamed on a low F function. I don't know for myself, just going by what people have said to me.

If it's not then oh well. lol

I am completely perplexed now. I guess I just don't see the depth in feelings you do. Feelings and emotion are typically in response to some sort of stimulus. And since I don't seem to have conscious control of them too much, outside of how much is revealed or not revealed to my external world, sitting down and analyzing them for extended periods of time just seems like a futile exercise.

If it's important to some people, whatever floats your boat I suppose.

 

[sculpting]

I am completely perplexed now. I guess I just don't see the depth in feelings you do. Feelings and emotion are typically in response to some sort of stimulus. And since I don't seem to have conscious control of them too much, outside of how much is revealed or not revealed to my external world, sitting down and analyzing them for extended periods of time just seems like a futile exercise.

If it's important to some people, whatever floats your boat I suppose.

You know how when you use Ti, it branches to the next thought, then to the next thought in a controlled fashion. Lines are drawn, connections are made. The Ti can be razor sharp and focused and is much more analytical and intellectually deep I would imagine than my weak fluttery Te is.

So Fi is like that. Like a fucking chasm of depth. Once you plunge off that bitch you are screwed. Layers and layers of it like waves in the ocean, that morph over one another and get all entangled. convoluted and pulling in lots of directions. Like your Ti exhibits analytical depth that will keep you busy compleating a thought-puzzle-game-system-synthesis for hours, our Fi can drag us on an emotional rollar coaster. Sometimes you have to sit back and treat it analytically to control it.

 

[Apollanaut]

You know how when you use Ti, it branches to the next thought, then to the next thought in a controlled fashion. Lines are drawn, connections are made. The Ti can be razor sharp and focused and is much more analytical and intellectually deep I would imagine than my weak fluttery Te is.

So Fi is like that. Like a fucking chasm of depth. Once you plunge off that bitch you are screwed. Layers and layers of it like waves in the ocean, that morph over one another and get all entangled. convoluted and pulling in lots of directions. Like your Ti exhibits analytical depth that will keep you busy compleating a thought-puzzle-game-system-synthesis for hours, our Fi can drag us on an emotional rollar coaster. Sometimes you have to sit back and treat it analytically to control it.

Oh, that's an amazing description! I even relate to it as an INFJ. I use my tertiary Ti a great deal, especially at work (I'm a scientist - not very common among INFJs) and it works very much as you've said. But my Fi is a different story, it's not somewhere I prefer to go if I can avoid it at all. I use it mostly for stuff like appreciating art or music, but I try to stay out of the murky depths of oceanic feeling. For INFJs it's a very critical function (witch/senex), but that criticism gets turned back on ourselves: "how can we call ourselves idealists when we don't even know what true feeling really is?" - that sort of s**t.

 

[Oberon]

extroverted feeling

Huh?

I still don't get it.

[blink blink]

Then again, I'm an ENTP.

 

[/DG/]

Huh?

I still don't get it.

[blink blink]

Then again, I'm an ENTP.

Does this help?

Extraverted Feeling – “Considering others and responding to them. The extraverted Feeling process is used in relation to particular people and situations and so has a more here-and-now quality than a universal, future, or past quality. When particular people are out of our presence or awareness, we can then adjust to new people or situations. This process helps us "grease the wheels" of social interaction. Often, the process of extraverted Feeling seems to involve a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The "social graces" such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Associated behaviors might include remembering birthdays, finding just the right card for a person and selecting a gift based on what a person likes. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involves extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them.”

 

[Kasper]

Huh?

I still don't get it.

[blink blink]

Then again, I'm an ENTP.

Obe, it's like when you leave your mouse droppings in everyone's blogs to be friendly and considerate and as a sign of your affection

Mouse droppings = Fe. At least that's the way I understand it.

 

[simulatedworld]

Hi happy puppy!

Clearly, I am not an ENTP, but I have lived with one for 17 years and seem to feel the need to comment on my observations of him at present.

From my observations, Fe is indeed his third, (tertiary) function. In most people, function no 3 has a child-like quality to it. We use it to play and find relief from our normal approaches to life. Like a child, this function tends to be all-or-nothing - swinging from a hopeful, positive, enthusiastic attitude to a deflated, negative, pessimistic one, with very little in between.

My ENTP has quite a well-developed and obvious Fe function. In its positive expression, he enjoys company, makes friends easily and does indeed tend to "mother" other people. He loves to offer advice to help people sort out their problems, is VERY generous (with time, money and other things), and is an excellent host, who loves preparing creative meals for others.

In its more negative expression, he is super-sensitive to rejection (perceived or actual), becomes a lot more forceful and abrupt with his advice-giving, and can be super-critical and harsh when dealing with others.

In either mode, he projects his moods outwards for all to see. This can have very powerful effects on anyone remotely sensitive in the immediate vicinity, as he has quite a strong personality. His positive moods are infectious and can lighten the mood of everyone he comes into contact with. His bad moods are terrible to behold, even when he does his best to contain them. He has a withering "death stare" which can kill small animals at a hundred paces!

Contrary to the popular conception of NT-types as unemotional, he is anything but! He experiences his emotions very strongly indeed, he just prefers not to use them as a basis for making important decisions, relying on his Introverted Thinking logic instead.

He has a fair amount of awareness of the importance and value of Fe, even if he doesn't always understand it. He comes to me for advice on matters Fe, eg. when he can't make sense of another person's behaviour, or wants to rephrase something in a more diplomatic fashion.

Hope this helps!

^_^

 

[JocktheMotie]

You know how when you use Ti, it branches to the next thought, then to the next thought in a controlled fashion. Lines are drawn, connections are made. The Ti can be razor sharp and focused and is much more analytical and intellectually deep I would imagine than my weak fluttery Te is.

So Fi is like that. Like a fucking chasm of depth. Once you plunge off that bitch you are screwed. Layers and layers of it like waves in the ocean, that morph over one another and get all entangled. convoluted and pulling in lots of directions. Like your Ti exhibits analytical depth that will keep you busy compleating a thought-puzzle-game-system-synthesis for hours, our Fi can drag us on an emotional rollar coaster. Sometimes you have to sit back and treat it analytically to control it.

Sounds turbulent and generally not fun. Doesn't seem like you get much enjoyment out of it, and can lead to odd swings in mood/emotional state, whereas I don't see that happening and I have tremendous amounts of fun when I'm trying to solve a puzzle, system, problem, or synthesizing new information and ideas.

Is this something NFPs do alot? I don't think I'd like to be around when this is taking place.

 

[sculpting]

Sounds turbulent and generally not fun. Doesn't seem like you get much enjoyment out of it, and can lead to odd swings in mood/emotional state, whereas I don't see that happening and I have tremendous amounts of fun when I'm trying to solve a puzzle, system, problem, or synthesizing new information and ideas.

Is this something NFPs do alot? I don't think I'd like to be around when this is taking place.

Not sure. I think it may be the Ne-Fi combination, which kind of leads to moodiness. However Ne-Ti people can be really moody too, so perhaps it's the evil Ne.

 

[sculpting]

Sounds turbulent and generally not fun. Doesn't seem like you get much enjoyment out of it, and can lead to odd swings in mood/emotional state, whereas I don't see that happening and I have tremendous amounts of fun when I'm trying to solve a puzzle, system, problem, or synthesizing new information and ideas.

Is this something NFPs do alot? I don't think I'd like to be around when this is taking place.

Also it has been a tough couple of weeks. Typically the Fi is a little better behaved but when other people around me suffer I can feel their unhappiness no matter how hard I try to ignore it. Combine that with a stupid boy and it's sure to make the Fi a little nutty.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Also it has been a tough couple of weeks. Typically the Fi is a little better behaved but when other people around me suffer I can feel their unhappiness no matter how hard I try to ignore it. Combine that with a stupid boy and it's sure to make the Fi a little nutty.

Stupid boy? INTP date didn't go too well?

 

[sleuthiness]

So is it around 30 years old that an entp will tend to fully develop their Fe?... or is it sooner? I just wonder if I'm going to know this one girl (24 years) at school long enough to witness her acting so prickish around mine and others' Fi.

 

[sculpting]

no, I have this crazed entp man that I work with. I thought he hit on me, then was told he wasn't. Then I found out he had a girlfriend. Then I was told he was just hitting on me to make another girl envious, then found out he was sleeping with the chick who told me that. Then I found out he is sleeping with all the chicks, then found found out he really does like me a lot, and he does have a fun ENTP brain but he is CRAZY. Like pathological personality disorder crazy.

I am old (32) and a single mom and have been single for about three years and quite happy that way honestly. That man was the first guy to show any interest in me, which was nice if confusing, but my god, it's like a soap opara from a mental institution.

The INTP boy seems so normal and could just prove to be a fun distraction when I travel to that city. I think my new plan will be an NT boy in every city to hang out with when I travel on business. I wouldnt want one at home though as relationships take a lot of energy and work. Just seduction on the road for me I think

 

[Apollanaut]

However Ne-Ti people can be really moody too, so perhaps it's the evil Ne.

Finally, an admission of guilt!

You may be amused by my list of presumed Ne traits (edited from a previous thread) from an outsider's perspective, based on 17 years of living with an ENTP. Bear in mind that after years and years of studying type theory, I still don't really "get" Ne at all!

Ne is:

No good at spelling.
Loses things constantly.
Talks. In. Short. Sentences.
Totally unpredictable, even for an INFJ.
Very silly.
Likes practical jokes.
Sometimes gets very paranoid.
Experiences extreme mood swings.
Shares those moods with everyone in a 100 foot blast radius.
Truly and utterly hopeless with details.
Cannot help joining the dots.
Cannot even SEE the dots!
Cannot tell left from right.
Solves TV murder mysteries in the first ten seconds.
Never does anything the same way twice.
Never, ever reads instruction manuals.
Understands metaphors better than literal explanations.
Pretends to be listening even when it isn't.
IS listening even when it doesn't appear to be.
Has little or no sense of time.
Considers "now" to be a flexible concept.
Considers "tidiness" to be an overrated concept.
Really, really good at generating new ideas.
Some of those ideas are sheer genius.
Some of those ideas are not as good as they seemed at first.
Some of those ideas are fatally flawed, but this only becomes obvious when it's far too late!
Prefers to delegate all of the mundane, routine, boring bits to a nearby INFJ.



Please feel free to compile a similar list for all those amusing little Ni quirks you may have noticed. I'm sure it will be much shorter than my Ne list....

 

[JocktheMotie]

Finally, an admission of guilt!

You may be amused by my list of presumed Ne traits (edited from a previous thread) from an outsider's perspective, based on 17 years of living with an ENTP. Bear in mind that after years and years of studying type theory, I still don't really "get" Ne at all!

Ne is:

No good at spelling.
Loses things constantly.
Talks. In. Short. Sentences.
Totally unpredictable, even for an INFJ.
Very silly.
Likes practical jokes.
Sometimes gets very paranoid.
Experiences extreme mood swings.
Shares those moods with everyone in a 100 foot blast radius.
Truly and utterly hopeless with details.
Cannot help joining the dots.
Cannot even SEE the dots!
Cannot tell left from right.
Solves TV murder mysteries in the first ten seconds.
Never does anything the same way twice.
Never, ever reads instruction manuals.
Understands metaphors better than literal explanations.
Pretends to be listening even when it isn't.
IS listening even when it doesn't appear to be.
Has little or no sense of time.
Considers "now" to be a flexible concept.
Considers "tidiness" to be an overrated concept.
Really, really good at generating new ideas.
Some of those ideas are sheer genius.
Some of those ideas are not as good as they seemed at first.
Some of those ideas are fatally flawed, but this only becomes obvious when it's far too late!
Prefers to delegate all of the mundane, routine, boring bits to a nearby INFJ.



Please feel free to compile a similar list for all those amusing little Ni quirks you may have noticed. I'm sure it will be much shorter than my Ne list....

Ne understood the theme of your list after the first 3 points, got bored and didn't read the rest.

 

[Apollanaut]

Ne understood the theme of your list after the first 3 points, got bored and didn't read the rest.

I could have saved myself a lot of time if I'd just said that!

 

[Qre:us]

Have fun with that. Getting in touch with your Fi should be a good priority, you will be surprised at how nice it is. How is it a weakness? You can know how other people feel and also know the reason you are feeling the way you do and how to fix it, isn't that a strength? It is for me.

I don't really understand this. I know exactly how I feel. I'm not sure how you can't know how you feel. It tends to be right there on the surface, it's like reading a stock ticker for me. I don't necessarily think it's Fi related.

There's 'know that you feel X', and truly knowing that you feel X (in a deeper, Fi sense, meaning, an acknowledgment).

For example, for school, when acceptance letters were coming in. When I didn't get into X place, I was sad. It's, as you said, automatic, feeling cannot be controlled, everyone feels, including Ts. But...the difference, in terms of functions, is how we process.

In that above situation, for example, as soon as I recognized the sadness, my first thought was: why would you be sad? you didn't meet their criteria, and having a capped number of space, someone met their criteria more than you. It's ridiculous to be sad. And, weirdly enough, this type of 'rationalizing' of inner-feelings in terms of self (Fi), leads me to nonchalance. Doesn't make me feel happy, but, I don't allow myself to be sad because it's 'illogical' to the situation.

So, then, to me, reaching a healthy control of Fi means that I acknowledge that I am sad, and allow myself to feel that (not rationalize it away). This leads to a lot of introspection, like, truly evaluating the merits of X (and, hence, why I wanted to go there, which is why I'm sad when I didn't get in), and, thus, my goals which I thought would best be attained through X. Or, maybe it's because I don't like rejection, whether it be X or Y. It's a deeper understanding of self and self's motivation - Fi.

be glad, I am coming to think Fi really sucks. It is a giant weakness that just makes the world so irrational to live in. It's flippant and sort of useless honestly. I'd trade it for some good ol' fashion Ti anyday.

Healthy Fi is the key. Health = wellness (in any sphere).

Logic can be quite nonsensical in some situations when it's put in practical context, so, getting good ol'fashion Ti doesn't necessarily gurantee you a better understanding of the real world. Just...logic.

 

[sculpting]

Ne understood the theme of your list after the first 3 points, got bored and didn't read the rest.

Guilty as charged.

Okay I do this one thing that I think is Ne but just to drive my ISTP crazy.

When I empty the dishwasher I just put the dishes wherever there happens to be empty space in the cabinet. So... after awhile they all migrate throughout the kitchen as cabinet space becomes available, due to using more or less bowls that week. The cups may start to the top left but eventually they are all at the bottom right after like six weeks. I have stopped to consider if you could apply some sort of mathmatical model to map out the transtion as they migrate and thus predict the next possible location of a cup in like four weeks.

He would seriously go crazy over this. I think it may be Ne's doing...

 

[simulatedworld]

I'm frankly surprised at how many NTs go to such great lengths to deny the existence of their emotions (and how many others actually buy it!)