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  1. #11
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Well, I'm supposed to be a typical ENTP in his mid thirties, and yes my tertiary is Fe, and is getting stronger with each new year. And the trend is the same with every ENTPs I know.

    Apollanaut description is interesting, while I'd say Nanook and Babylon Candle are simply speaking of things they don't understand, that are obviously too alien for them. Plus, the Socionic model never made any sense to me (from my experience, it was proven plain wrong too many times to really bother discussing it).

    And yes, ENTPs are social, emotional animals who suffer from wild, unpredictable streams of irrationality (Ne-dom). And we like it that way, because it keeps us creative and enthusiastic.

    Anyway, to keep the debate short:


    1) When does this develop for you guys?


    Only after I was 17 years old. Not really before.


    2) Is it painful/difficult as it develops? (ie trusting others and so on..)

    Initially, I developped my Fe thanks to painful events, but no, aside of them, the more this function develops, the more I feel balanced and at peace with myself.


    3) Do you use it on purpose to influence others or does it emerge on its own at times?

    Both.

    Manipulating others is easy, and sometimes, well, quite interesting. I have to confess I do that quite often, especially at work (and feel no guilt about it). ENTP's iconic animal is the fox, you know. But Robin Hood is their patron saint.
    That could also explain why I tend to be extremely generous even with perfect strangers. I feel the need to genuinely help, and there's no way I could explain why.
    Since I have almost no Fi, it's not for moral reasons, I don't care about the means ("Morality makes light of morality" -> Pascal)... it just... happens!
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 03-23-2009 at 05:15 AM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #12
    Member D'Artagnan's Avatar
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    ^ A big +1!

    Agreed; Apollonaut's description is pretty accurate and Blackmail hit the nail on the head. The only thing I could add is some clarity about Socionics, where there seems to be a little confusion. I really like Socionics (it gives a good picture of how functions are managed) and here's a quick description of an ENTps's Super-Id (the weakest) functions.

    For a more comprehensive look (saves me writing the whole page): Functions - Wikisocion

    If you meet someone using Se confidently, they're not an ENTp. I which mine was better but I know if it was, I wouldn't be this psychotype. I am an expert procrastinator, never doing a research task till the evening before. Ne is great for imagining possibilities but suffers when a task needs to be simply done and finished. There's a reason beyond laziness that ENTps never seem to finish any ambitious project...

    While Fe is usually seen as emotional expression (including "mothering"), Fi deals the nature of inter-personal relations. It lets one person know what another is feeling through non-verbal cues, as well a general understanding of one's own emotions. This is why types with strong Fi can seem 'preachy' - they simply know what they feel about the subject at hand (whether good or bad). With PoLR Fi, ENTps will never really know how you're feeling if you don't 'tell' them. Sure, I can rationally deduce (Ti) that you are happy because you're smiling, but I can get into a lot of trouble if people aren't explicite with their feelings. Also I can find myself angry or sad without realizing it, feeling not quite right but unsure why. Screw you Fi! Its all so confusing...

    ILE domain - Wikisocion

    1) When does this develop for you guys?

    Probably around age 18 - before then I was much meaner

    2) Is it painful/difficult as it develops? (ie trusting others and so on..)

    Mine rose out of 'wanting to be a good person', so its hard to look at yourself in that light. I'd say its harder to see other ENTps who haven't developed it yet, so much wasted potential! But I'm sure this is true whenever anyone perceives immature examples of their own type (and probably needs its own thread)...

    3) Do you use it on purpose to influence others or does it emerge on its own at times?

    I try hard to be a 'good' person - which means empathy, respect and buckets of Fe to make others feel comfortable. Pretty corny right? I also use it in the exact same manner Blackmail describes


    ENTp: On an epic, never ending quest for attention hugs!
    Chivalry is only a name for that general spirit or state of mind which disposes men to heroic actions, and keeps them conversant with all that is beautiful and sublime in the intellectual and moral world
    - Kenelm Henry Digby

  3. #13
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    ^ chronological order for me is reversed from the two guys above me


    i was born into a fairly traditional and cultural family...and i have also witnessed what lies outside the palace walls. i cite those reasons for me having a well-developed Fe way before puberty.

    in retrospect, im more of an asshole now than i ever was before...till about 2-3 yrs ago, i actually empathized with people....i felt for them

    yes, ive always tested as a ENTP and a strongly typed at that

  4. #14
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    empathized with people....i felt for them
    but you know that these are Fi buzzwords?!

    (but despite buzzwords: whether its Fi or Fe actually depends on what kind of "feelings" of others someone take into consideration)

  5. #15
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Why do people talk about socionics on an MBTI based forum? The ENTPs we are talking about have NeTiFeSi.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #16
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    because people are more rational, interested in truth, and less ethnocentric, interested in mere "make believe"

    >The ENTPs we are talking about
    lol, we are talking about existing people, right?

  7. #17
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    because people are more rational, interested in truth, and less ethnocentric, interested in make believe
    ??? What does this mean and how does it answer my question? I'm sure there are socionics forums somewhere if someone wants to talk about it.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #18

  9. #19
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat
    Why do people talk about socionics on an MBTI based forum? The ENTPs we are talking about have NeTiFeSi.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat
    ??? What does this mean and how does it answer my question? I'm sure there are socionics forums somewhere if someone wants to talk about it.
    It's all learning, why ignore something just because most aren't interested around here? The more perspectives you're given the better the understanding can be. I prefer many aspects of Socionics and there are others around here who do as well but I like this forum, so I'm here.

    Anyway it's Typology Central now /smartass

  10. #20
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D'Artagnan;583314If you meet someone using [B
    Se[/B] confidently, they're not an ENTp.
    This is interesting. My friend (the mothering entp) said that the crazy spastic partygoer was really an odd Ne-Se combination she used to distract her from having to understand her feelings. The feelings were there but they were just amorphous confusing overwhelming things that she chose to ignore rather than acknowledge.

    Once acknowledged she tried to treat them as Fi and hide or supress them and then finally by logical step-by-step analysis of them grew into a more balanced Fe mindest. For her this happened in her mid twenties after a series of five miscarriges. An INTP friend helped her much here.

    After working with the third slimy, lacking entp and a few really odd conversations with him I have come to conclude he has narcissitic personality disorder. I honestly really felt personality disorders were made up things or misunderstood biological mental illnesses that needed to be treated medically. However he really fits all the mannerisms and behaviors to a tee. I tried to give him some honest feedback and coaching about how his arrogance distracts from the team atmosphere and help understand what he wanted to get out of his current position and where he would like to see himself in a few years.

    It was a very odd stilted conversation and I left feeling like I was talking to two different people at the same time. The conversation would take violent leaps back to why what he was doing was perfectly okay and how he had influence over others and he could use me to accomplish his goals. Being in a very Te mode, I systematically chopped each of his arguments down and explained why they were irrational.

    Opps, didn't realize I was dealing with a crazy person. He bacame more and more defensive and more and more irrational. One side of him wanted to be the leader and get recognition and then I would confront him with how his people skills need to improve to be a better leader. Then he would derail the conversation and ask what any of it had to do with his position, and that people were irrelevant.

    Outside of his cheating bahavior, I realized he had said some some crazy stuff in the past and had an issue with random lies, and just plain wierdness.

    I didn't realize how messed up this guy really is though. I was standing next to a raging forest fire and I had no idea.

    In conversations with the friend entp, she said she could have checked off about five of the nine symptoms of narcissism before the age of twenty, however grew out of most of it over time as she matured. This guy, at 45 is 9 out of 9.

    It is kind of tragic.

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